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Goat Cafe; Just the Facts => Working, Showing and Wether Goats => Topic started by: Crissa on January 31, 2008, 09:46:52 AM



Title: Tips on showing.
Post by: Crissa on January 31, 2008, 09:46:52 AM
Thought I'd make a thread where we can talk about showing tips. Including what clippers to use, how to clip, how to train a goat to stay set up, etc.  ;)

First question how exactly do you clip a goat? I've sheared sheep but I know it's not the same. Are there places where you leave some fur?


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: imalilbirdie on January 31, 2008, 11:02:46 AM
Good Idea Crissa..excellent thread and I will make it a sticky for you.  :)  There are lots of show people in here and all willing to share their knowledge and know how with you and others like you.  thanks for the idea and the thread. :)


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: PeaceGoats on January 31, 2008, 12:43:15 PM
I'm wanting to know about clipping too. Not for showing, but for Shanti this spring- he has such a hard time shedding (he has so much winter hair!) it takes a long time and he's all itchy. Good idea for a thread. Can you use dog clippers? I have some for Ruby, forget what brand. They have various plastic "guards" you can put on the end that keeps the hair longer... can I take those off and just have the metal clipper part, or would that burn him or cut him?


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: Sally P on January 31, 2008, 02:30:57 PM
Yes Emily--you can use the guards if you want to.  When we show clip we don't use guards but we want their hair down close.  You start at the tail area and head for the neck.  If you don't want to clip as closely, you can go in the direction the hair grows---neck to tail.  Do the body, then the legs and then the neck and head.  Inside the ears (if you are show clipping).  Some people do the face and just cut right off those lovely long lashes---we don't.  You want to clip up around the hooves so that the top of the hoof meets the hair on the leg.  (Does that make sense). 
The biggest thing to know is---put them on a milk stand.  And give them a dish of grain.  That will keep them occupied while you are clipping.


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: ockeracres on January 31, 2008, 02:47:50 PM
I'd like to know how you get the girls (and boys) to stand still and leave their legs where you put them.  My girls hate having their legs touched, and as soon as I put one where I want it, they put it back where they want it.  I have a really great buck I want to show, but if I can't even get the girls to cooperate, how will I ever get him to?


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: Sally P on January 31, 2008, 06:17:41 PM
Been there many a time.  I've even had does prance on their hind legs in the show ring.  In fact that happened to me at Nationals--my yearling went right up on her hind legs and walked around the ring that way!!  It was just lovely.
After a while they get used to it.  When we are showing our bucks, I don't have a prayer of getting those legs set exactly right cause I can't reach over their back to set them.  And besides--who can pick up all that weight.  If they get really antsy---just walk them out of line (if you are standing still that is) and take a few steps with them (away from the judge) then turn and go back to the line.  Sometimes that helps settle them down.  Also a good trick with goats showing for the first time or two---don't be first in line.  Get in the middle of the lineup where you goat can see what's going on in front of him/her.  They learn a lot by just watching.
A lot of times when a goat moves it's foot in the ring it is because it has been placed in an uncomfortable spot.  A lot of people make the mistake of placing the hind feet to far out.  If it is a doe and she has an udder--you don't want any "air" showing between the leg and the udder.  Try to imagine with dry animals where the udder would be and place the legs according to that.  The front legs should be directly under the animal an not spread apart.
A trick to helping the foot and leg look much straighter:  when you reach down and grab the hind leg--just before you place it on the ground, turn it a little to the inside.  When the foot goes down, it will be perfectly straight and facing forward not outward.


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: goatgirl15 on February 01, 2008, 09:36:03 PM
i am having problems with some of my goats that don't like to lead the arch their necks and drag their feet. any suggestions?


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: Sally P on February 02, 2008, 08:23:00 AM
Make sure you have the collar way up by the ears.  If you let the collar slip lower, it begins to choke them, and they won't move.  Positioning the collar up where it belongs not only helps them walk forward, but also keeps their head up.  That collar should be up so that your hand is almost between the ears.
Also make sure that you are leading/walking by the shoulder of the goat=--not out in front of the goat.


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: goat fever on February 05, 2008, 09:30:16 PM
My son's doe Rose only walks when she wants too.  She is a real joy for him to show.  Not really , but he loves her and does the best he can with her.  Now at home if she thinks she is going to get more feed, she will walk like a princess.  But for the most part is a horrible walker.  She will even lay down to avoid walking if she has too.  Sounds swett doesn't she ;D


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: debpnigerians on February 05, 2008, 11:59:19 PM
The best tip I can give you is RELAX....your goat IS going to make a fool out of you, so just relax and accept it.....one of the first shows I went to as a spectator when I first got into goats was the Ft. Worth Stock Show. I was VERY intimidated and impressed by all the big-name breeders who were there.....omigosh, it's KELLYE BUSSEY herself, of Twin Creeks!!!!!!   Wow - I felt like I was in the presence of royalty.....and was absolutley flabbergasted when her gorgous little doe took one look at the shavings in the ring and said "Oh,NO NO NO I don't THINK so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" and folded her dainty little legs up and laid down. Everyone was laughing, and it only took a minute to realize they were laughing because they'd been on the recieving end of goat behavior themselves. I haven't been intimidated since.....the only thing goats love more than food is pullong a fast one on their human, and there's o better time to do it than at a show! :U


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: ockeracres on February 07, 2008, 12:58:44 PM
Oh thank goodness.  I am really  hoping the judge looks at my goats and not how I do showing them.  I guess that is usually the case, unless it is showmanship.  I've had goats for 4 yrs now and haven't gotten to show yet, this will be my first year.  I can't wait, I really want to see if the does I bred or bought, have what it takes.



Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: Sally P on February 07, 2008, 01:05:22 PM
The biggest part of showing on the person's part is learning the sneaky little ways to make your goat look really good.  Another biggie--always keep the goat between you and the judge and NEVER walk around the back of the goat.  To change sides--gracefully walk around the goat's head.


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: debpnigerians on February 08, 2008, 11:57:17 PM
Oh boy - am I ever glad I checked this thread again....I discovered that if you go to the smilies [more] section and click on the little smilie on his knees bowing down as if before royalty what comes up is a smilie sticking his tongue out!!!!!  :AH Most certainly NOT the image I had in mind.....my apologies, y'all, but it wasn't my fault this time.


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: Crissa on February 15, 2008, 08:57:02 PM
Okay here's another question from me, can you use dog choke collars for showing? Since they're less expensive and a little easier for me to get.  ;)


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: ockeracres on February 16, 2008, 10:42:17 AM
That is what I use.  Just don't hold it like a choke collar, you don't want to choke your girls.  Do you know what I mean?  Hold it at the rings, so it doesn't tighten. 


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: Shelly on February 16, 2008, 02:47:14 PM
We use dog choke chain with a quick link to hold the ends together. You can get quick links at hardware store or even walmart. Heres a picture http://www.safelandindustrial.com/app/stx.products.asp?cid=21
Shelly


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: Sally P on February 16, 2008, 03:37:05 PM
That's what we use all the time.


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: Crissa on February 16, 2008, 08:56:50 PM
Thank you! I'll have to get one of those quick links since I'm getting my show doe on Spring Break!  ;)


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: fcnubian on March 07, 2008, 09:30:57 PM
Not sure if this has already been posted.

Always be aware of where the judge is, and always pay attention if he or she is close to you incase he/she asks questions. Last year I was asked when hannah freshened and with how many.
If you cant remember number of freshenings, when they freshen ect ect there are tag like things that can go on the collar you can write on.

The first time Georgia was shown she was a pain in the rear. She didn't know to walk nicely or to set up. It was a spur of the moment decision. Lol

I'll share some photos of me showing.
This is Delilah being shown as a dry yearling.
(http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q204/babydelia2006/Goatshows/GoshenGoatShow034.jpg)

In the middle.
(http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q204/babydelia2006/Goatshows/GoshenGoatShow041.jpg)

3rd one.
(http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q204/babydelia2006/Goatshows/GoshenGoatShow040.jpg)

Hannah, 2yr old 2nd freshening.
(http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q204/babydelia2006/Goatshows/GoshenGoatShow018.jpg)

3rd from the left.
(http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q204/babydelia2006/Goatshows/GoshenGoatShow016.jpg)


Relax and have fun. And practice at home. During show season I usually get the girls out every few days and set them up once or twice walk them and put them back.

I also always trim hooves the day we leave for the show. We usually go to the show the day before and sleep there instead of rushing the next morning since the shows are usually over an hour away. Trimming hooves the day before is just one less thing to do on show day.
I also shave the udder the day before.
I also use the dog choker chains.
Also have your does use to having their udders messed with. The judges usually feel the udders and teats.

Oh and a big one. ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS make sure you have all the registration papers.

Oh and make sure you know the show order...and if you have does going in to classes one right after another, have a helper who can hold the goats, or a chain to tie them and have them waiting at the ring.

If I think of any more tips I'll add them.


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: Sally P on March 08, 2008, 07:38:38 AM
Amy---you need to punch that doe down---do you know how to do that?  And never ever stand in the ring with you free hand touching the goat unless you are setting the goat up.  That hand goes at your side or behind you.  Equally important to setting the goat up correctly is the handler standing correctly.  If the handler stands looking around, kind of slopy in the way they are standing -- then that reflects on the way the goat looks.  A good example is the lady ahead of you.  In the second picture she is looking totally away from where the judge is. 
A tip on controlling the dow when the judge is checking the udder/teats:  Put your leg in front of the goat with your knee resting agains the goat's chest.  That gives you a little control and helps stop the goat from moving.  The second the judge is done checking teats--then move your leg back to where it should be.


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: fcnubian on March 08, 2008, 07:05:25 PM
Which picture? I always put their back down when the judge is looking at them or moving closer and will be looking at them next. Or if he/she has everyone lined up and standing back and looking at all of them. I dont make the girls keep their back down if the judge is inspecting the udder and teats of the other does.

Quote
And never ever stand in the ring with you free hand touching the goat unless you are setting the goat up.


I dont, if you are refering to me, which picture do you see that? I was either setting them up or putting their back down in the pictures above. Only one I could see something that looked like that is Hannah, 4th pic. She kept moving so I placed my hand on her to keep her still while I looked at her back feet/udder to see if something was causing her to want to move or if she was just being a brat.

Thanks for the tip when the judge feels the udder and teats.

I like showing. And gonna miss it this year. I have 3 does, and only one of them can be shown because the other two are going to be dry and one is a 2yr old and the other is a 3yr old. The other is a yearling. And since they didn't get bred, I wont have any kids to show either.
With the rising price of gas, I just can't take only one doe to a show, especially when they are over an hour away and unfortunately they all are.  :'(


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: Sally P on March 08, 2008, 07:29:16 PM
Well Amy---don't ever take for granted that the judge won't notice if your goat isn't set up properly--and that includes being punched down.  Just because the judge may not be at your goat, doesn't mean they don't notice what else is going on.  If you have them keep a good show stance all the time they are standing in the ring, then they will get used to it and will stay there when you do set them.
Maybe whomever was taking the pictures happened to take each photo at just the wrong time---however---you were touching the goat each and every time. 


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: Muddy Creek Farm on March 27, 2008, 12:22:50 AM
I like this thread.  Another tip is SMILE!!!  And don't stare at the judge (if you know what I mean lol) too much. 

As for clipping I have about 4-5 blades of each length that I use.  Simply to keep them cool and if I need to send one or two in for sharpening I always have enought at home (plus I got a great deal on clipper blades....)
And don't be nervous, goat shows are FUN!


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: dragonlair on March 31, 2008, 05:24:17 PM
Another thing to make sure of is the tattoo. Make sure its still able to be read. The first year we had a Boer show up here I only had the 1...my baby buck. The breeder called like 2 days before the show to beg me to show him so we would have enough entries to make it look impressive to the show committee at the fair. Since I had checked the tatt after I got him (he had just been done and I was making sure it healed) I didn't bother checking it again. Bad move.

My guy was up for Grand Champion buck. He had been chosen Junior champ. When they went to check the tatt...it was gone! Nothing!!!!! Of course, no placing because of it.

What I learned?

Never use white ink (the breeder was new to goats)
Always remember to check the tatts


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: tenngoatgma on March 31, 2008, 05:42:41 PM
I dont plan on showing goats, but I would like to have certain ones that will lead. What age and how do you teach them?


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: Muddy Creek Farm on March 31, 2008, 05:53:26 PM
Yep.  NEVER use white ink.  I learned that one too..  When the weather clears up I will check everyones tattoos again.


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: nancy d on March 31, 2008, 07:55:12 PM
Great point about tattoos! Cleaning ears  few weeks before a show I checked one of our does ...her tat and her sisters tat was different on paper than in the ear...by one digit..the sister was deceased (I had owned her as well) so it was easy so get new papers.


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: heavenlyhaven on April 07, 2008, 09:22:58 AM
what do you use on goats with dark ears?
the lady that just disbudded my babies said something about their ears being dark
what should i do
i don't want my kids to go to fair planning to show then not be able to because the tat is gone :-[


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: Sally P on April 07, 2008, 10:14:52 AM
You use the same green ink on dark ears that you do on light ears.  Judges can read the tattoos by holding a flashlight on the outside of the ear and letting the beam shine thru the ear.  We never use anything but green ink.
Vasoline rubbed into the tattoo after you have rubbed the ink in, helps set that ink. 


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: heavenlyhaven on April 07, 2008, 10:52:51 AM
http://www.utextension.utk.edu/4h/projects/AdditionalResources/Goat/The%20First%20Step%20Toward%20the%20Ring.pdf

i hope that link works
it's a site i found, or was given to me, don't remember, about how to train a goat to lead


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: tenngoatgma on April 07, 2008, 01:49:05 PM
Thank you Heavenlyhaven.....That web site is very informative.


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: Kit on April 22, 2008, 10:54:46 AM
I've never had the privilage of showing any of my goats, but do have a question on clipping....do ya'll sculpt the face area to highlight? or just clip it? With our horses we'd sculpt the facial highlights (without clipping off the eyelashes), so just curious.


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: Sally P on April 22, 2008, 07:55:32 PM
Just clip the face.  And we do leave the eylashes.  Most breeders don't. 


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: Muddy Creek Farm on April 22, 2008, 09:33:39 PM
I leave the eyelashes as well. But you clip the rest of their face and every other hair on their bodies except the tip of their tail.


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: Kit on April 25, 2008, 07:57:51 PM
Now see, I wouldn't be able to control myself, I'd have to flip the clippers over adn sculpt into a beautifully highlighted face.  ;D


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: Muddy Creek Farm on April 26, 2008, 05:32:22 PM
Does anyone think she has groomed too many horses?  :-) LOL


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: goat fever on April 26, 2008, 09:31:13 PM
Mybe one too many horses for Kit. 


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: PeaceGoats on April 26, 2008, 09:32:44 PM
Too many horses?

No such thing!!!

 ;D


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: Kit on April 26, 2008, 09:35:13 PM
Who said too many? I actually thought maybe I could sell my useful services for goat showin! LOL I clip 'em, you show 'em...  ;D ;) Figure it'd take no time to do a goat compared to a horse.... :-)


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: Muddy Creek Farm on April 26, 2008, 10:58:32 PM
I can only imagine clipping a horse!  ???


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: Kit on April 29, 2008, 09:20:05 AM
A goat would be a breeze! Especially after having to body clip 3-6 month old foals for the showring. That's a jump and clip session all in itself, so figure goats would be abotu the same.

Watch out my girls, I think I'm gonna try clippin ya'll when the weather warms up.


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: Sally P on April 29, 2008, 10:35:56 AM
A milk stand and a dish of grain helps immensely with the "jumping" when clipping!!


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: Kit on April 29, 2008, 11:59:15 AM
Milk stand, grain, horse.  ???  ;D ;) I could see that!  ;D Thanks for the Idea Sally! dont' think hubby will appreciate it when I inform him he has to build a foal size milk stand (tried just the grain before, never worked, maybe the milkstand is what I missed?  ;) )

JUST KIDDIN YA! but the mental image is funny you have to admit.


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: heavenlyhaven on June 07, 2008, 08:01:43 PM
my milk stand is metal
it has a railing on one side and bars going down to the platform every few inches
the other side is almost the same but there are 4 bars missing that give me enough room to milk
does that make sense?
anyway
there is no way i could do a proper clip on the stand
i wouldn't be able to reach everywhere
so what should i do


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: GotmygoatMTJ on January 15, 2009, 06:29:05 PM
A clipping tip, which we have learned from others.  If our goat is very steep hipped, you leave all or most of the hair there to make it seem less steep.  Of course it wouldnt fool a judge, but it helps in a visual inspection from the judge.

Usually the first thing a judge looks at is the front.  Im about to simulate a judge

"Oh that doe has a nice front, walks wide and has big bones, uh oh, steep hipped, yepp she aint gonna be first, but look at that butt!  Shes definitly at the top, but not in my first place!"

We have a doe.  Shes huge, powerful, long, but she has a slight steep hip.  In a USBGA show she got a 3rd out of 4.  The judge said if her hip was better, she would have gone better. But otherwise a beautiful doe.


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: Sally P on January 15, 2009, 08:12:01 PM
I don't know that I would leave a lot of hair in a place that had a slight defect.  With a steep rump--you can usually set them up to hide that; however the majority of judging is done while the animal is on the move. 
When you set her up, after you get her punched down, then reach under her belly and tickle her a little.  It will make her pull her tummy and rump up while maintaining that set you just put her in.


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: GotmygoatMTJ on January 16, 2009, 10:03:16 PM
True yes, but to help cover it a little more it would be wise to keep some hair there instead of shaving it all down.


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: Sally P on January 17, 2009, 08:52:12 AM
No good judge is going to be fooled by leaving some hair on a fault spot.  If anything, it will just look like a really bad clipping job and a lot of judges would instantly realize that you were hiding something.


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: GotmygoatMTJ on January 17, 2009, 11:52:14 PM
OK BUT.  I show too.  When we went to Cullman Alabama there was a doe that got second place.  We went over and congradulated her and she told us about the steep hip and what she did.  Now I am just expressing my opinions about the subject.  Who cares if the judge feels it, but it would look good walking now wouldnt it.  I dont mean to be nasty with you or anything but there is a syndrome for this. Know It All Syndrome.

I do value your opinions on everything, but when you say things they just come out in a nasty way!

If this gets me kicked off of here, Im sorry, but theres only so much I can take before I crack. :'(


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: Sally P on January 18, 2009, 08:12:01 AM
If I don't sugar-coat my answers--well that's just me.  Why you would think that I said anything bad, I just don't know.  We do a lot of showing---about 15 shows per year with about 30 goats average in each show.  So I do know a lot of judges and know what they are looking for.
While you may think that clipping is going to hide a potential fault, if you show long enough, you will discover that setting your goat up is much more important than the clipping.  Setting up is when you learn little tricks to "hide" problems--and there are a lot of little tricks.  I can tell you a lot of little tricks to showing, but the problem is that they are very hard to describe.  What you really want to do is go to as many shows as possible -- preferably shows that have breeders who show a lot and have for several years.  Just watch them and you will pick up many little tricks of the trade!!


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: dragonlair on January 18, 2009, 10:37:08 AM
Just because the judge placed that doe second doesn't mean he/she missed the fault. They judge the over all animal. She may have been ideal in other areas and her over all body type was much better than all the rest except the winner. Various faults are given different levels of seriousness. Some faults are minor, some way more serious. Its the judges job to weigh each fault against the over all picture of the "perfect" goat for that age, sex and breed, and then to compare each goat against the others in the ring. And to further confuse the issue, judges are given a certain amount of discretion as to what faults they can let slide and what their interpretation of the ideal goat actually is! A judge is not going to be fooled by creative clipping, they've been there done that and probably know more showing tricks that the people in the ring.


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: Sally P on January 18, 2009, 10:44:41 AM
Right on, Dragon!!!


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: Dawn on February 20, 2010, 12:28:27 AM
does anyone have a favorite brand clipper they use or even one that they had that they don't like for one reason or another. Also what size blades are best to get?


Title: Re: Tips on showing. REVISITED...TO SANDY P
Post by: rsw on March 05, 2010, 10:41:19 AM
Hi...
Since this thread has not been visited recently I was hoping to get it going again, since spring and show season are around the corner...

SandyP...I noticed you referenced punching down the does back in several spots...I assume it's to help level the topline...is it the same that they do for sheep when showing???

Please explain, if you wouldn't mind, how this is done, and how to know if you are doing it correctly, etc...
My daughter will be showing some yearlings this year that she is going to be starting from scratch on as well as her senior doe that has been shown previously, just not by her.

Thanks!


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: Sally P on July 11, 2011, 11:33:46 AM
Watch the other show people.  You will notice that they are running two finger down the goat's spine.  At some point on the spine, the doe (or buck) will lower it's back and then look very level and straight.  Just don't keep you hand on the goat's back when you are done.  Punch the doe down after you set the legs.  It doesn't have to be hard---just that little gentle 'jab' will make a doe go down after she has done it a few times.  Each goat has a slightly different spot that works so you will not have to run you fingers down the spine each time you set them up.  After a while you will learn where that spot is.


Title: Re: Tips on showing.
Post by: goatgirl132 on April 06, 2013, 11:44:41 AM
I kind of wanna state something.
When your in that showring and your goat jumps, rears, or just flat out says NO and tucks his legs under him and layes down. And everyone in the stands are laughing. Laugh with them. Their not laughing at you their laughing at the fact that they ALL have had that hapoen to them. Rather it was at home or in the ring. But all those peple that have showed in the past in that stand are lauging because they have all have had it happen to them. So smile keep calm and just go with the flow.