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Goat Beat; The Heart of What Keeps us Going => Just Getting Started => Topic started by: imalilbirdie on November 16, 2009, 07:09:21 AM



Title: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on November 16, 2009, 07:09:21 AM
Here's my thoughts..this is just a game folks.

What I'm going to do is give symptoms to an illness or injury..and what I would like each of us to do, is to give our procedure of what we would do first..
One entry per person, per reply...I would like everyone to state what they would do in each illness/injury..

Example..
If I post to you symptoms of..
greenish discharge from the nostrils, weepy eyes, slight raspy cough, no body temp, off grain, eating hay and drinking water..what would you do?

I would like each of you to post one answer per reply...
Example..
SallyP posts..
VetRx 2 drops per nostril every 4 hours.

Candace posts..
Wash eyes with warm water, apply neosporine once daily

Sandie posts...
B-complex once daily

Pearplum posts..
VetRx given orally 2 drops 2 times daily.

I want you to post something different than what the person prior to you posted, EXCEPT..if there is an alternate treatment such as
if you suggest...
give an antibiotic, I'd use Biomycin 
the next post could be
Alternate antibiotic would be LA200

If you can when you post a treatment/medication..give as much info about that treatment as possible..
such as..
Biomycin 4.5cc's per 100lbs of body weight, long acting antibiotic, given once every 36 to 48 hours, unless there are signs of improvement.

Or like the VetRx, 2 drops per nostril, every 4 hours. 

This will refresh our memories of things we should know right off hand.  It will help our newbie goat owners as well.  And it will give information that is good to use on every goat breed.

Please use your own words..if you need to research it from one of our other trusted sites then feel free to do that, but please post in your own words. 

This can be fun, this can help each of us, and bring to light new treatments and procedures that some of us might not know.

What say you..wanna give it a go?  Join in if you want, you don't have to do this..but I'm sure we'll all learn something from it eventually. :)

I'll start with your first symptom(s) to treat in the next reply.





Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on November 16, 2009, 07:17:25 AM
Lets start off with a relatively easy one for all of us.. :)

Symptoms:
Boer Goat down
Doesn't want to get up
Left side of the belly in the rumen area, much larger than the right side
Grinding teeth
a little moaning and cries out occassionally
Off feed
Normal body temp.
Eyes are normal
Wormed 2 weeks ago with Dectomax
Yearling Open Doe

What is this, and what do I do for it?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: dragonlair on November 16, 2009, 07:21:40 AM
Dose with bloat medication (I use Gas-X) and Baking soda. Make her walk and massage rumen area, sounds like bloat. I would also give her a C&D anti-toxin. Follow up with  commercial probiotic product or yogurt.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on November 16, 2009, 02:45:19 PM
Ok, thanks Dragon. :)

Lets do just one treatment per post though ok? :)  Such as Dragon would have posted..
baking soda balls, dampened with water and formed into a ball given orally every 30 minutes to an hour..

Then someone else would give another treatment..such as
keep them walking...

So, I'll make another post of another illness and see what we come up with ok? :)


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on November 16, 2009, 02:48:29 PM
Symptoms:

Weaned 5 month old Nubian wether.
Weighs around 30+ pounds
seems to be loosing weight.
Normal body temp.
Increased his feed portions.
Increased his hay amount.
Still not gaining but appears to be loosing weight.
Eyes are not pale but whitish pink color.
His coat seems dull and frumpy looking.

What is wrong?  what do I do for it?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: harmon_farms on November 16, 2009, 04:03:34 PM
Worm with wormer of choice for your area. I would use Ivomec dosed at 1cc per 50lbs, so I would give .6-1cc orally. Probably closer to 1cc that way it's not under dosed.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Possible on November 16, 2009, 06:42:12 PM
No idea on this one- not experienced it myself - but will be watching the simulation/correction of the problem. 

Hi again,

Terri


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: herdmomma on November 16, 2009, 07:11:27 PM
I would after that give him some oatmeal , mollassas and raisins for the iron content


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sandie on November 16, 2009, 07:17:57 PM
after worming b complex and vitamine a d & e.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on November 17, 2009, 06:03:36 AM
Good job you all!!  That's exactly what it is..it's a worm issue, that hasn't progressed to anemia. :) 

Now, here's one that is a little more difficult..you'll need to read all the symptoms carefully, because they do mock two different illness's.


Symptoms:

8 month old Open Obi Doe
Bottle fed and raised.
Weighs around 90 pounds
Hair coat is real shiney
Very healthy, got sick quickly
reluctant to lay down, when she does lay down she can't get back up.
drooling slightly out the left side of her mouth
off food and water
Seems to star gaze into open spaces
When she walks she walks in staggering circles to the left
She seems to have impaired vision out her right eye, won't blink when I touch above the eye.
Body temp is now 100 when we first noticed her acting off an hour ago her temp was 101

What am I?  What do I do?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: happyjunker on November 17, 2009, 07:33:19 AM
I know...I know... POLIO!!!  Check the info pages for what to do and scream for help on the Emergency Only Site!!! ;) ;) ;)


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on November 17, 2009, 07:37:26 AM
GOOD JOB TRACY!!!  :)

Now tell me, what do I do for this Polio illness?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: happyjunker on November 17, 2009, 10:03:03 AM
Well it's a good thing those info pages are there!  I was going to say antibiotic but the Info pages say:
POLIO: Thiamine is the only effective therapy, dosage is 5 cc per 100 lbs.
I think my first guess of crying and screaming for help may not be nearly as effective, but would be my first response  :scream


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on November 17, 2009, 10:18:17 AM
Good Job Tracy  :) ..Thiamine is B1, and it can be given in human form pills, as well as injection.  In the case of Polio, you can not overdose Thiamine.   


Contrary to the info pages..and the experiences I've had helping with polio, and dealing with our Caprine specialist back home in AR..you would administer an antibiotic even with Polio..two reasons stand behind this..

1. Polio mimic's Listeria..the only difference in the two diseases/illness's is that Listeria will spike the body temp, and infect the brain stem, and Polio will rapidly drop the body temp.  With the two mimicing each other..it's always safe to do the antibiotic.
2. Polio will put a goat down, weaken it's immune system drastically in just a matter of hours.  Thus subjecting the immune system to all sort of sub-illness's.  Such as Polio dropping the body temp, making the goat lethargic, and rendering it unable to move, Pneumonia would be the secondary illness you would battle with Polio.

Thus you would administer an antibiotic even with Polio.  The antibiotic of choice per my Vet back home, is Nuflor.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sally P on November 17, 2009, 12:28:03 PM
And most recommendations for polio are thamine and penicillan---massive amounts!!  I've never seen the other antibiotics recommended.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on November 17, 2009, 03:03:28 PM
Yes, you can use penicillin..it will fight the bacterial nasty stuff that polio will render into the system, however, it's faster to react to Nuflor than penicillin.

Along with this Thiamine treatment, we also dosed out massive amounts of B-Complex.  The b-complex helps to bind the Thiamine, as well as it also contains Thiamine, but not enough to treat polio with.

This treatment isn't a one time treatment..this treatment is given around the clock..for many, many days to come.  Polio is nasty as it will return when you think it's been licked, and healed..take caution, don't stop treatments too soon.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on November 17, 2009, 03:06:22 PM
Ok, our next one...

Symptoms:

4 day old Newborn
Seemed fine at birth, nursed his mother and did as good as his sister did.
He is now very weak
Walking on his pasterns
Seems like he can't swallow, and is too weak to nurse now.
Seems weaker in his rear end and rear legs

What am I?  What do I do?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: harmon_farms on November 17, 2009, 03:47:44 PM
I don't know if this is right, but Selenium Deficiency?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on November 17, 2009, 06:03:57 PM
Yes, that's right, good job Rachel :) ..it's a Selenium Deficiency..called Floppy Kid Syndrom..

Now, what do I do to treat it?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: herdmomma on November 17, 2009, 06:15:29 PM
Give vit E capsule  poke hole in the liquid capsule and squeeze the contents into his mouth


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sunshine on November 17, 2009, 06:40:40 PM
Drench with baking Soda and water about a 1 tsp of B soda and 2 tsp of water....


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: happyjunker on November 17, 2009, 08:50:35 PM
 :( All I can think of is I am not worthy of owning goats. :-[ Okay... so now I'll be quiet and wait til someone wants to know how to mix up somethin' in the kitchen! 


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on November 18, 2009, 04:08:03 AM
:( All I can think of is I am not worthy of owning goats. :-[ Okay... so now I'll be quiet and wait til someone wants to know how to mix up somethin' in the kitchen! 

 ;D ;D  Tracy you're funny!!  These are things that happens to goats along our herding time.  Some folks may never experience FKS, because they are in a higher selenium area..like Sandie, she's in an area that is on the dangerous high side, given any more selenium and it could be overdosing and causing death.

You would could also dose out BoSe or Vit E gel w/Selenium.  It takes the Vit E to bind the selenium to the system.  Usually it's a one time dosage.  The kid should show signs of improvement within a few hours of administering the Vit E gel w/selenium.

Good job you guys!! :)

Onto our next one.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on November 18, 2009, 04:19:15 AM
Symptoms

Newly purchased 2 yr old Pygmy Doe, she's been here about a month.
Won't eat.  Tried giving her grain and hay but she's ignoring it.
She looks fine, has a healthy weight on her, she was eating up until yesterday.  Toes are a little long and needs more trimming. 
I gave her 3cc's nutri drench the day she, and her sisters arrived.
She has a normal body temp. She's in with 3 other does that we purchased at the same time from the same seller.
She's walking the fence line bellowing in this awful sounding "baa" and is going hoarse. 
She's waving her tail and being just nasty to the other girls.
She has a slight discharge on her vulva and a little crusty yucky stuff on her tail hairs.
I wormed her and the others 3 days after we got them.
I also noticed that her stools are now clumped like dog poo' instead of goatie pellets.
She use to be very friendly and now she's  standoffish and doesn't really want to come to me when I call her.  The other two aren't behaving this way, they are eating just dandy and just as friendly as the day I bought them.

What am I?  What do I do?



Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: herdmomma on November 18, 2009, 06:44:09 AM
Awwww she wants a boyfriend,  she's in heat :)


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on November 18, 2009, 06:47:21 AM
 ;D ;D awww that one was easy huh?  ;D ;D

Yes, she's in heat.  Good job Herdmomma.

Now tell me how do I treat this?  ;D ;D


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: herdmomma on November 18, 2009, 06:55:56 AM
Just give her space and she will settle down in a couple of days


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sunshine on November 18, 2009, 06:59:10 AM
Get HER a Boyfriend before she drives the Entire place NUTS!!!! ;D


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on November 18, 2009, 07:00:10 AM
 ;D ;D That's what I'd do!!  ;D ;D

Ok, that one was pretty easy..but you have to admit it was a good one.  Made me laugh anyway.  ;D ;D

On to the next one..


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: herdmomma on November 18, 2009, 07:01:39 AM
I would have said that but by the time you would be able to get one there (if you didnt have one)
she wouldn't want him anymore ;D


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on November 18, 2009, 07:06:32 AM
Symptoms:

4 yr old Nigi Doe
Grinding teeth
Doesn't want to eat or drink
3 months bred
wormed her with Cydectin one week before she was put with the buck for breeding
Her body temp is 103
Pawing ground,  lays down and gets right back up almost instantly
cottage cheese brownish goo coming from her vulva

Do I call the Vet?

What am I?  What do I do?



Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: herdmomma on November 18, 2009, 07:09:15 AM
Is it possible that she is actually getting ready to abort?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on November 18, 2009, 07:14:45 AM
 ;D good job Marla!!

Yes, this is early stages of aborting the kids

Now tell me..
Do I call the Vet?  What do I do?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: herdmomma on November 18, 2009, 07:22:11 AM
There are two possible options , stay with her and watch for signs of actual pushing to see if they will be delivered without assistance for a few hours?  If no pushing then I would call the vet and ask if I could give oxytosin to help them be expelled
Not really sure on the lenghth of time to watch


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sunshine on November 18, 2009, 08:20:25 AM
I would call the vet and Possibly start Antibiotics on vets recommendation.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 02, 2009, 05:40:00 PM
Did you all want to continue this thread?

If you do I'll post another ailment..if not we'll just let it drop and delete it when monthly clean up rolls around.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: harmon_farms on December 02, 2009, 05:48:00 PM
Yes please!! I love this thread, lol.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sunshine on December 02, 2009, 06:13:56 PM
Give us another!!


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 03, 2009, 06:01:25 AM
Ok, then here we go...

Symptoms:

yearling Boer Doe
Open
Some swelling in the jaw area one month ago.
treated twice with cydectin, given at 1cc per 22lbs of body weight 14 days apart.
Doe not eating real well
Seems a little lethargic.
Will eat some hay, but not a lot of grain.
Seems a little weak.
Body temp 101.5
fecal test showed good

What am I?  What do I do?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: harmon_farms on December 03, 2009, 12:40:02 PM
What color are her eyelids, gums and such?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 03, 2009, 02:24:53 PM
light pink to almost whitish looking.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sunshine on December 03, 2009, 02:29:25 PM
Need to worm with a different med and give some B-complex


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: harmon_farms on December 03, 2009, 08:00:29 PM
You would also want to treat her for Anemia I would think... Does she have Bottle Jaw?
I think some red cell would help.. definitely want to get those worms out asap.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sunshine on December 03, 2009, 08:02:39 PM
Oatmeal with raisins and molasses for the anemia


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: herdmomma on December 03, 2009, 09:02:18 PM
Definite signs of bottle jaw, anemia has set in, give her some geritol ,and lots of mollassas, karo syrup and oil mixture


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 04, 2009, 05:58:52 AM
Yes, this is a secondary illness caused by the barber pole worm that caused bottle jaw to occur, and the anemia is the secondary illness of bottle jaw. 

Worming with a wormer used to kill both the barber pole worm and lungworm is what you would do to treat the bottle jaw.  Lungworm can also cause anemia.  In my experience, with one doe having Hookworm Larvae, I've found that Hookworms will also cause anemia. 

Treating bottle jaw, should always follow with anemia treatments.  Bottle Jaw will cause anemia and 3/4's of the deaths from bottle jaw, is not actually caused from the bottle jaw itself if it's treated properly with the proper wormer.  Anemia is what usually kills the goat, after being treated with proper wormers.

When and if you ever do get bottle jaw, treat for anemia as well.  Anemia treatments are those of which consist of several treatments..
Iron shots (should never be given without the consent and advise of your Vet.  Iron can be overdosed.  Overdosing of Iron will cause death.  There are no treatments available to counter the over dose affects.)
Red cell
Spinach Leaves
Oatmeal laced with molasses and raisins
Geritol
Molasses water (molasses contains natural iron)

The natural treatments will need to be dosed for several days, a few times a day.
Red Cell and geritol are dosed at least once a day for several days.
**Note, even Red Cell can be overdosed, follow directions carefully and exactly.**


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 04, 2009, 06:12:18 AM
Symptoms:

3yr old doe
Just weaned kid off 2 months ago
Seems Depressed
hangs her head
is displaying some drunken behavior
Saw her muscle twitching once
some bloating occured
had some  swelling on left flank
Heard her grinding teeth
Does not want to walk
appears to be a little lame
body temp appears fine, checked every 2 hours steady at 102.

What am I?  What do I do?

**Do your research on this one, it may seem obvious but it is not. Just a hint for you, this was posted here in GB not too long ago.  Research areas to help you find this..  http://www.goatwisdom.com/  http://fiascofarm.com/  http://www.jackmauldin.com/  **  GOOD LUCK..this one is a toughy.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: herdmomma on December 04, 2009, 07:35:50 AM
I am guessing goat polio and she needs vit B


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sunshine on December 04, 2009, 07:55:29 AM
Ketosis??
 If it is then start out with Molassses and Karo syrup mixture every couple of hours.
B-complex and Probios or Yogurt with lots of active cultures to get rumen funtioning properly.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 04, 2009, 08:04:30 AM
no it's not ketosis or polio.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sunshine on December 04, 2009, 08:15:35 AM
Acidosis????


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 04, 2009, 08:18:14 AM
Yes, it's Acidosis, good job Sunshine!! ..now, research and tell me the cure for this.  This is a mild case and this case can be treated at this stage..later stages and advanced stages are extremely critical and thus, a Vet needs to be called as soon as possible.  But in this case, since it's a mild case..tell me what to do.

Oh and btw Tonia, check your pm's. please.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sunshine on December 04, 2009, 11:05:39 AM
A mild case possibly baking soda or some probiotics to help balance the rumen...


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 05, 2009, 06:16:23 AM
Yep, baking soda is needed to treat this illness'.

Since this illness is a quick killer of goats..I will say that Your Vet needs to be called ASAP.  Mild cases can turn deadly very quickly.  I would like each of us to become more familiar with this illness, as it can happen to any one of us at any time.  So here's what Jack Mauldin has to say about this disease..

Here's the link..
http://www.jackmauldin.com/diseases.htm  red the acidosis section..

Acidosis occurs after accidentally taking in large quantities of concentrate foodstuffs
Symptoms..Depressed, hangs its head, drunken behavior, muscle twitching, bloat tends to occur, swelling on left flank, may grind teeth
Treatment...Stop access to food. Drench goat with something alkaline such as bicarbonate of soda (aka Baking soda). 2-3 ounces will help neutralize acid. Walking goat has some value. Contact veterinary as needed.

Here's more extensive information posted by Jack Mauldin..
" Introduction

The rumen microflora can only handle gradual changes in forage:grain ratio. If the proportion, absolute
amount or type of grain changes too quickly, then lactic acidosis will develop. Feeding order (i.e. grain
before forage) also can cause lactic acidosis. The type of rumen bacteria change to gram positive from
gram negative and lactic acid is produced. This lowers the pH of the rumen. Once below 5.5, protozoa
and bacteria start to die. The acid gets absorbed into the body creating general acidosis. If the pH is low
enough, the rumen gets "burned" and, if the goat survives, it often gets secondary rumen and liver
infections from bacteria or fungi. Fibre (e.g. hay or silage) is important in the diet as well as it stimulates
the goat to chew, thus producing alkaline saliva which serves to buffer the rumen. Diets with little fibre or
chopped too finely are more at risk of lactic acidosis.

Clinical Picture:

Simple indigestion may be the first indication of a feeding problem. The goat backs off her feed, usually
only for one feeding. If longer than 24 hrs then something else is wrong. Chronic feeding problems will
manifest as variable appetite, depressed milk fat and chronic laminitis. Acute laminitis shows up as
painful feet. What is more common is the chronic form in which the toes grow abnormally fast with
"rings". The quality of the horn is poor and flaky. Goats may be lame and prone to foot abscesses. Milk
fat is depressed because fibre is necessary for the rumen flora to produce the correct volatile fatty acid to
make milk fat (acetate). With more severe lactic acidosis, the protozoa die, the rumen becomes static
and the goat becomes depressed and dehydrated. The rumen is fluid filled and "sloshy". Diarrhea smells
acidic and is yellow in colour. In very severe cases, there is no diarrhea because of total gut stasis. The
goat may appear "drunk" and ataxic. She will go down and will look very similar to milk fever, i.e. cold
with dilated pupils. Rumen examination (pH and examination of flora) need to be done to confirm a
diagnosis.

Treatment:

In severe cases, treatment is heroic and may involve a rumenotomy in which the rumen is surgically
emptied out. Supportive therapy includes iv fluids, rumen transfaunation (rumen juice from a healthy
animal), alkalinizing solutions for the rumen (only done with caution), antibiotics and nursing care.


Prevention:

Rations should be formulated and balanced correctly for the correct production group. Forage should be
fed before grain and the daily amount divided into at least 3 separate feedings. A total mixed ration (TMR)
helps keep the rumen flora happy by not overwhelming them with carbohydrate at any one time. Feed
changes all need to be made gradually over several days so the flora have time to adapt. For small
holders with a few goats, grain security is an important issue.


Dr. Paula I. Menzies, Ruminant Health Management Group
Ontario Veterinary College, University of Guelph"


This disease mimic's a lot of other illness's and issues, so just be aware that we need to add all the symptoms up, and contact a Vet if you have any doubts.  This is a killer illness, that can kill rapidly.  Don't hesitate to call your vet.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 05, 2009, 06:27:43 AM
Symptoms:

Young kid, 9 days old
Nursing very well, and is gaining weight.
Body temp at 103
Was born in the pasture, and already a few hours old when found.
His navel seems swollen, tender to the touch.
He's moving slowly, but still moving.

What am I?  What do I do?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: herdmomma on December 05, 2009, 07:54:45 AM
possible infection of the umbilical cord?
clean it up gently and apply iodine


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 05, 2009, 09:21:49 AM
Yes, this is Navel Ill.. good job herdmomma. :)

Along with gently cleaning the infected area, and applying iodine..What else should I do for this baby?  Remember Navel Ill can be a killer.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: harmon_farms on December 05, 2009, 07:50:19 PM
You would need to treat with an antibiotic as well, due to the infection. I'm not sure which though... Pen?
I'm fairly certain you need to treat for quite awhile to make sure the infection is gone.
If Pen is the correct antibiotic, you would dose.. depending on weight... about .5cc a day for 5 days at least.
I would also give some yogurt as well to counteract the antibiotic for proper rumen function.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 06, 2009, 08:41:33 AM
Yep Rachel..that's right..you need to treat with a good antibiotic for several days..and Penicillin is the one you would use, as this is a bacterial type infection.  Good job!!

With navel ill and it's treatments, there are secondary illness's that can and often does occur..so those secondary illness's would be
chronic constipation
kidney infections
infections of the lungs and heart
joint infections (as navel ill does attack the joints)

Each case if different with each animal/individual.  So, the affects can be from minor to severe.  In all cases of navel ill, it' is best to contact your vet and let them know you're dealing with navel ill..some times IV's need to be ran to combat the affects and conditions of navel ill.  Not all cases need this extreme treatment, but it is better to be safe than sorry. 


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 08, 2009, 06:31:22 AM
Symptoms:

Freshened 4 yr old Doe, second kidding.
Twin kids of 10 days old
Doe's udder is swollen, and appears a little painful to her.
Clots and a little blood in the milk.
Hot pinkish color to the udder
The doe doesn't seem to want to eat her grain, but is nibbling hay, and drinking water.
Kids are still nursing.

What am I?  What do I do?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: GotmygoatMTJ on December 08, 2009, 07:43:10 AM
Mild Mastitis?

If Mastitis give LA200(Depending on weight, can be given orally) and rub and massage udder with peppermint oil.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sunshine on December 08, 2009, 08:28:54 AM
Could be just a congested udder. Massage(not lightly!) with peppermint oil every 2 hours and milk out all you can. I would wrap the udder in a hot wet towel too.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Young LaMancha Breeder on December 08, 2009, 11:41:27 AM
If it is mastitis, you would pull the kids off and give them supplemental milk. And use a product called Today and insert in both sides of the udder (if it is in both sides) and massage and milk out as much as possible. Today products have a 48hour milk withdrawal so it wouldn't be safe to put the kids back on before that time period


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sally P on December 08, 2009, 03:29:14 PM
Actually you don't want to pull the kids off a doe with mastitis because the kids working that udder and bumping it is the same thing as you massaging it several times a day.  Supplement the kids---but let the keep bothering the doe.  Doesn't hurt the kids at all.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 08, 2009, 05:16:16 PM
Yes, this is acute mastitis..Chronic mastitis leads to Blue Bag, aka Gangrene Mastitis.

Per Fiasco Farms:

Traditional Western Medicine Method:

Milk out the udder completely and Infuse the udder with Today (Cephapirin Sodium). Follow the instructions on the instruction sheet on how to infuse.

4 or 5 infusions, 12 hrs. apart
Use one whole tube, per infected side, per treatment. If only one side is infected, treat only that side. Never split the dose between sides (you will risk spreading the infection).
Make sure to properly sanitize the the teat before infusing.
Only use the very small tip of the applicator, inserting it only 1/4" into the teat orifice.
Once the tube is infused into the teat, carefully pinch the tip of the teat (to keep the orifice closed) and work the medicine up into the udder.
Massage the udder so that the medicine is spread thoroughly throughout the infected udder
Accompany this treatment with systemic Oxytetracycline.
Since you are administering antibiotics, be sure to also give Probios, to help keep the rumen functioning properly.
I highly recommend massaging the udder after each treatment with Herbal Mastitis Massage Salve.
I also recommend giving the doe Immune Support Herbal Tincture.


good job!! :)


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sally P on December 08, 2009, 05:54:03 PM
I notice that Fiasco Farm doesn't say anything about heat treatments---or milking just to keep the pressure up.  Heat treatments should precede the massage--and the massage should be done along with the heat and then milking every couple of hours.  The heat is necessary to help break up the congestion and pepermint oil rubbed on after the massage will help keep heat on that udder. 
What Fiasco Farms states is just fine---it just doesn't go quite far enough.  Using t=only their method, you will contend with mastitis for a longer period of time than you will with the heat, massage, milking method.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sunshine on December 08, 2009, 06:09:17 PM
The Heat, Massage and Milking worked the best for me! The times I have had trouble.. As a matter of fact I put peppermint oil in the udder wash all the time now. Just a few drops.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sally P on December 08, 2009, 07:18:53 PM
My problem with doing something like using the pepermint oil consistently is that many things tend to lose their usefulness with prolonged use so using the oil  consistently could possibley lower it's usefulness when you really need it.  If you're not having a problem, why use it!!


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sunshine on December 08, 2009, 08:32:40 PM
Thats true with some things but not all. Peppermint oil will stimulate blood flow and as long as I have used it in my udder wash I dont have problems. And it smells good! ;) It also disinfects.. I switch it out with Lavender and Tea tree oil too. Because they are both Antibacterial and Antiviral.. Its just a few drops. If I am having a problems its usually a stronger amount I use. 


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sandie on December 08, 2009, 11:06:07 PM
whether or not you seperate the kids depends on how sever the mastitis is and what treatment you are using if you are using the antibiotic teat infusion (today) then you need them seperated because that antibiotic needs time to work and it won't do any good if the kids suck it out right away.
sunshine i put a few drops of peppermint oil in my udder wash too and it seems to work just great and just like you it is a more dilute formula than what i would use for a massage . the 2 goats i am milking now are both very prone to picking up mastitis , i have had to treat them every year previously, but neither one has had any problem this year since i started putting the peppermint in the udder wash.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 09, 2009, 06:42:36 AM
I'm certainly glad to see the responses to this Symptom..it's one that even I need to learn from, as I've never had a case of mastitis..so this is very useful information. :) 

We'll get on with the next one, and I hope to see the same type of response to it as well. :) 

Are we having fun with this?  8)


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 09, 2009, 06:58:33 AM
Symptoms:

3 yr old Boer wether..good sound body..used for Packing in the wilderness..born and raised on the farm.
Formed small pimple type blisters in these areas
lips, tongue, anus area, and the coronary band of the hoof.
He's a little  lame.
No elevated body temp..temp is in the normal range..checked every hour.

what am I?  what do I do?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: herdmomma on December 09, 2009, 08:31:08 AM
could he have stickers below the surface that he picked up in his travels


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 09, 2009, 09:03:28 AM
it could be..but in this case it's not stickers..good try..now try again please. :)


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Young LaMancha Breeder on December 09, 2009, 11:04:55 AM
Hoof and Mouth Disease?  ???


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 09, 2009, 11:18:42 AM
Simular to, but no, it's not..good try Katie..please try again. :)


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: dragonlair on December 09, 2009, 11:55:20 AM
sore mouth?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 09, 2009, 12:03:36 PM
yeppers Dragon, it's sore mouth. :)  good job!  it does mimic the hoof and mouth disease doesn't it? 

tell me, what do I do now?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: dragonlair on December 09, 2009, 12:11:24 PM
It mostly has to run it course, but gentian violet will help dry up the sores. Tea tree oil too. Supportive therapy to keep the goat "healthy" to fight the virus. Its worse for nursing babies because it hurts to nurse.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Young LaMancha Breeder on December 09, 2009, 12:23:19 PM
Oh shoot. That is what I was thinking- but then I thought- no it couldn't be. Dont you hate when that happens  ;D Congrats Dragon!


Udder salve will keep the scabs soft so that it doesnt hurt as bad to eat- but it is a virus that like Dragon said must run its course. If the mouth becomes too sore it may be required to artifically feed the animal to prevent malnutrition.  When the scabs fall off your goats your  land will become infected where those scabs fell off at. And regardless the virus will spread through the herd or any goat or sheep they come in contact with unless that animal has already had it.

You can administer the CL vaccine to healthy animals to help from getting it as bad if the virus is already on your premises. But many breeders find this non-profitable as it is a virus and the vaccine carries the live virus.

Sorry if that was too much. But since there was non real cure I thought I would post that. I hope that is ok.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 09, 2009, 01:49:58 PM
Good job..that was quick indeed. :) 

On to the next one.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 09, 2009, 01:53:35 PM
Symptoms:

3 yr old Pregnant Alpine Doe
4 weeks from gestational due date
Sonogram showed twins 2 weeks ago.
seems depressed
slow to get up, and is laying off in a corner.
Her eyes are dull.
She has swollen ankles
Her breath and urine  has a fruity sweet odor

What am I?  What do I do?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: harmon_farms on December 09, 2009, 02:41:48 PM
Ketosis!

At least I think so, lol.

B-Complex to stimulate appetite and Probios to help with proper rumen function... and I don't know what else. :)


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: herdmomma on December 09, 2009, 03:06:07 PM
Give her plenty of Mollassas and keep checking urine with diabetic strips to see if levels are getting worse or better


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: GotmygoatMTJ on December 09, 2009, 03:27:40 PM
Make sure she doesn't get too lazy.  Heavily pregnant does tend to lay down a lot when really they need the exercise.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 09, 2009, 03:49:45 PM
you're on the right track Rachel..Ketosis happens after giving birth..this doe is pregnant..so it's Pregnancy Toxemia.

Herdmomma..if I don't have molasses what else can I use?  Besides Karo syrup..what's another form of it called?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Young LaMancha Breeder on December 09, 2009, 04:06:28 PM
sorghum?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: dragonlair on December 09, 2009, 04:36:22 PM
They also make OTC meds for ketosis/preg toxemia. However, some of them contain propylene glycol, which is 1st cousin to anti freeze!


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: GotmygoatMTJ on December 09, 2009, 04:59:35 PM
Maple Syrup? lol


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: harmon_farms on December 09, 2009, 05:02:57 PM
Propylene Glycol?
NutriDrench?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sunshine on December 09, 2009, 05:42:43 PM
Sugar??? Lol


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: herdmomma on December 09, 2009, 05:43:24 PM
YLB do other people besides us know about Sorghum? ;D  I did here about it till I moved from the north ;D
Would honey work?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: harmon_farms on December 09, 2009, 06:05:36 PM
I know what sorghum is!! We grow a couple crops that are in the sorghum family. :)


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sunshine on December 09, 2009, 06:28:44 PM
Unsulphured Sorghum Molasses? Thats what my jar says....


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sandie on December 09, 2009, 07:03:21 PM
actually any kind of sugar is what is needed. so syrup, sugar water, molasses, sorghum, honey , propylene glycol , whatever you have available. it is also helpful if you can get them to eat grain at all to bring up the amount of sweet feed in the mix. they are lacking 'energy feed' so sometimes a sugar high is a good thing i guess. anyway i know that it works on the goats with pregnancy toxemia i have a couple that tend to do that every year. usually carrying quads but sometimes just triplets or twins.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 09, 2009, 07:46:28 PM
Yes, Dragon & Rachel it's Propylene Glycol..good job.

Actually Sandie is right, any type of sugary substance will work..but brown sugar works best because it's pure sugar.

Sorghum is Molasses isn't it?  ???  I've always been told to get the "real" molasses in my feed, so went I set out to find a mill to do my feed, I asked them for pure sorghum molasses, with high fat content. 


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 09, 2009, 07:55:12 PM
Symptoms:

4 yr old Saanen Doe
Open, weaned kids 2 months ago
got a sore spot on her hind leg from a buried piece of metal.
Gave antibiotics for infection.
Sore spot is still open and draining.
She has increased muscle stiffness
somewhat of an unsteady gait.
Eyelids are begining to extend over the eye
she appears to be a little anxious

What am I?  What do I do?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: herdmomma on December 09, 2009, 09:56:05 PM
Tetnus,  give her a shot of tetnus antitoxin


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sunshine on December 09, 2009, 10:20:13 PM
I agree... Tetanus


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Young LaMancha Breeder on December 09, 2009, 10:24:14 PM
Sorghum is Molasses isn't it?  ???  I've always been told to get the "real" molasses in my feed, so went I set out to find a mill to do my feed, I asked them for pure sorghum molasses, with high fat content. 

Yes Sorghum is pretty much the same as molasses.  ;D But I thought you were asking for a different name for molasses. Im sorry my bad  :-[


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 10, 2009, 05:44:10 AM
Sorghum is Molasses isn't it?  ???  I've always been told to get the "real" molasses in my feed, so went I set out to find a mill to do my feed, I asked them for pure sorghum molasses, with high fat content. 

Yes Sorghum is pretty much the same as molasses.  ;D But I thought you were asking for a different name for molasses. Im sorry my bad  :-[

not to worry..it's not a problem. :)

Tetnus,  give her a shot of tetnus antitoxin
I agree... Tetanus

Yep you both are right..good job!!
After I give the tetanus shot..what else should I do?  What should I do with the wound? 

Tetanus is very hard to cure, quick action is needed, and this isn't a one time procedure..tell me what I should do next.  Should I continue the antibiotics? 


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sunshine on December 10, 2009, 09:09:02 AM
Depending on which antibiotics you would continue for a few days at least. I would squirt some of the antibiotics in the wound after cleaning it real well and then spray it with some kind of disinfectant. Purple lotion spray or Iodine....


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 11, 2009, 07:57:26 AM
Yes, Tonia..I would continue antibiotic therapy far longer than you normally would with dosages of antibiotics.  The antibiotic usually used for treatment of tetanus is Penicillin.

irrigating the wound with diluted peroxide to flush out the deadend flesh, is the first step to treatment.  Following up with a flushing using the penicillin, and then flushing again with the iodine.

This is the best treatment you can do for tetanus..the most hopeful recovery is prayers, and lots of them. 

As tetanus procedes to take the life of your animal, many other secondary issues arise from it.  Stiffening of the jaws, the mouth, the limbs, the spine, the head and many other exterior limbs of the animal.  You will need to IV feed or tube feed these animals.  Their life can not continue without Tube feedings, or IV treatments.  You will also need to flex and massage every external limb on the animal.  Keeping circulation going throughout the body.  If the animal infected with Tetanus is a ruminant animal you will need to massage intensively the rumen area. 

Tetanus is a very difficult illness to cure.  This treatment will last for weeks.  Some animals become so intoxicated with this illness that Euthinasia is the best choice.  However, I have known a calf to survive this illness, and living today a normal life.  It was truly a miracle that it survived it.  He got tetanus from being banded and not given a tetanus shot after banding..the banding slipped and caused infection that wasn't noticed until it was too late, tetanus had set in. 

Something for us all to remember..given banding, given surgical castration, any infiltration of the body of that animal that could cause tetanus if complications arise, it's always, ALWAYS better to be safe than sorry..GIVE THE TETANUS SHOT.  It takes very little effort to give, a small dosage is all it takes, quick acting tetanus shots are just as good as the CD&T shots if you're like myself and do not give the CD&T shot..this shot could save your animals life, and a lot of Vet medications in the long run.

Play it safe..Give the tetanus shot.  "An ounce of Prevention is worth a pound of cure."


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 11, 2009, 08:03:00 AM
Symptoms:

2 yr old nubian wether
companion to breeding buck
body temp 104.0
lethargic
off food and hay
shivering a little (even though outdoor temps are in the low 90's with very high humidity)
was fine this morning, but this evening displaying these symptoms
Doesn't seem to want to drink any water offered to him.
No signs of nasal drainage, no congestion in his chest, no bloating, no abnormal signs of pneumonia or a cold.
Rumen sounds good

What am I?  What do I do?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: GotmygoatMTJ on December 11, 2009, 08:32:02 AM
It sounds like Hypothermia.....


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 11, 2009, 09:02:55 AM
close GMG..very close..but the opposite of Hypo is ??  ???

Try again.. :)


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: GotmygoatMTJ on December 11, 2009, 10:46:09 AM
Hyperthermia?  :-)

Hes too hot.  Put frozen peas in his arm pits. Also in his testicle area?  Give him in Vitamin B complex to stimulate appetite.
Give him water via syringe to make sure he doesnt dehydrate and ad some electrolytes.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sunshine on December 11, 2009, 11:37:12 AM
Also put a fan on him so it will help cool.. You could put cool rags around his horns If he has them or on the top of his head to help cool. Not Ice cold on his head!
 Some type of electrolyte type of drink like GMG suggested every hours or so till drinking his own..


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: harmon_farms on December 11, 2009, 12:00:35 PM
I need to go back and ask a question on the Tetanus. If you can't get/don't have just a tetanus shot on hand, is ok to give the CD/T shot? Will it work the same?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 11, 2009, 01:11:27 PM
I need to go back and ask a question on the Tetanus. If you can't get/don't have just a tetanus shot on hand, is ok to give the CD/T shot? Will it work the same?

I don't believe the CD/T shot will work quickly enough.  However, if you're giving it before a procedure, it would be just fine..however, CD/T is not a one time shot..so plan far ahead to give the booster and give time for it to be working well before the procedure is done.

Quick acting Tetanus can be given even though CD/T shots are up to date and current.



Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 11, 2009, 01:19:34 PM
Yes, this is hyperthermia, heat exhaustion or leading to a heat stroke.

Time is of the essence here.  You must work quickly to get his temperature down.  Hyperthermia continues to aid in the rise of the body temp.  even though you've moved your goat to the shade, and put fans on him.  Cool down should come from the internal part of the animal. 

Gatoraid is extremely good to give in this situation to any animal, dilute the gatoraid 3/4's gatoraid, 1/4 cool water.  Electrolyte water is very good. 

No you do not want to put "ice" on the forehead of any animal..this will cause them to go into shock.  The same with the belly..do NOT get the belly wet or place ice on the stomach area.

You want to cool the animal down using the pulse points of the animal..that can be the neck area, around the heart area, under the legs, or the ankle area,  or even behind the ears..but do not immerse your animal in cold water..do not get the stomach wet at all. 

This treatment should last as long as your goat/animal is showing signs of distress or weakness.  Extreme panting my accompany the animals condition, panting is a visual sign the animal is WAY too hot. 

Good job you all. 

I will post a new symptom when I return later this afternoon. 


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sandie on December 11, 2009, 02:51:45 PM
I need to go back and ask a question on the Tetanus. If you can't get/don't have just a tetanus shot on hand, is ok to give the CD/T shot? Will it work the same?

the cdt shot has tetanus toxoid and it takes about 2 weeks to work but lasts a year.  the tetanus shot is antitoxin and it works immediately but only lasts about 2 weeks, so the cdt is for long term protection , the tetanus antitoxin is for treatment of an injury. even if your goat is utd on cdt it is a good idea to do a tetanus antitoxin if there is an injury and you are in an area where tetanus is common. you can order it from jeffers it is not expensive to keep a small bottle on hand.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: harmon_farms on December 11, 2009, 03:44:44 PM
Ok, so that needs to go on the to order list, and be gotten fairly pronto! You never know when something will happen.
It's kinda like keeping a bottle of Epinephrine on hand. Inexpensive, easy to store, but you'll be glad you have it on hand.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 11, 2009, 05:50:15 PM
With the tetanus shot..if you have a goat break a horn even, according to our Caprine specialist, they should have a tetanus shot.  My Vet always played it safe..she highly suggested tetanus for any type of injury that calls for medications..such as an antibiotic treatment, topical treatments and so forth.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: dragonlair on December 11, 2009, 06:02:40 PM
Epi is getting hard to buy now a days because they use it to make crystal meth. Those jerks are ruining a lot of stuff for us! grrrrrrr >:( >:( >:(


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 11, 2009, 06:06:59 PM
Symptoms:
Open 2 yr old Nigi Doe
Body temp is normal
Appetite is very good
Has Grey-white crusties on small areas of skin. Skin feels very thick, and the hairs is gone.
Doesn't appear to be itchy, and it doesn't seem to be irritating.
Started out small and has increased in size.
These patches are all over her.

What am I?  What do I do?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: dragonlair on December 11, 2009, 06:12:24 PM
Is there a fungus amungus? If so, gentian violet works well, as does athletes foot stuff.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 11, 2009, 06:17:18 PM
yes, it's a fungus, good job Dragon :)  .. now what fungus is it? Before we name off what we should do about it..we need to know what type it is. :)


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sunshine on December 11, 2009, 07:58:49 PM
Ringworm? Iodine would do it applied till gone...


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: dragonlair on December 11, 2009, 09:27:38 PM
Gention violet works great for ringworm. We bought a herd of 1st calf heifers most of which had it. I got it form them and couldn't get rid of it for nuthin. The vet had suggested blue kote/gentian violet for the cows, so I used it. It was the only thing that worked! SO what if I had purple spots on my face, arms and hands????? hehehe


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 12, 2009, 05:17:57 AM
Yeppers it's Ringworm.  Good job Sunshine. :)

There are lots of treatments you can use for Ringworm, so I'm going to wait to post a new symptom..give everyone a chance to post some treatments for it.

I will say that even Vicks Vapor rub dabbed onto the spots a few times a day, will also kill ringworm. (**note; do not use vicks on cats**)


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: herdmomma on December 12, 2009, 06:31:32 AM
You could use a 7% iodine on the spots and it will kill ringworm


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: dragonlair on December 12, 2009, 10:50:33 AM
Tea tree oil and neem oil is supposed to also.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: herdmomma on December 12, 2009, 02:59:45 PM
Didn't realize someone said Iodine already so I am gonna add that Jeffers carries a foot rot and ringworm spray by agrilabs that gets them gone after a few treatments


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Togepi on December 12, 2009, 09:46:43 PM
Remember when we were all talking about jewel weed a while back?  I found a site that listed several things it works well on, ring worm being one.  Haven't been able to test it out though. 


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 13, 2009, 05:18:03 AM
Symptoms:

Pet Pygmy, 2 yr old, leash broke.  Him and his two brothers and two sisters are our childrens "dogs", meaning they love these goats like they would a pet dog, the goats go with the kids every where, from walks in the city parks, petting zoo's, nursery schools, kindergarten classes, camping trips, family visits, and so forth. :)

We've noticed this past the past few weeks my Oldest son's pygmy wether has developed a chronic cough. 

We first thought this was a cold or pneumonia coming on, but he's never ran any fever, or had a snotty nose.
His eyes are good and clear, and he still eats like a hog!! 

What am I?  What do I do?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: herdmomma on December 13, 2009, 07:47:02 AM
The only thing that comes to mind on this one is shipping fever, from being taken to so many places


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: GotmygoatMTJ on December 13, 2009, 08:19:17 AM
Maybe he eats too much?  Is he overweight?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: dragonlair on December 13, 2009, 08:27:54 AM
The collar has cause some damage to the windpipe from pulling or being pulled on?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 13, 2009, 08:33:47 AM
No, his collar isn't too tight, there's no yanking or pulling, the goats are more than happy to lead at the kids sides. :)

No it's not overweight, they are at the ideal body weight for a pygmy..they just eat their food very well and ask for more..haha.

No it's not shipping fever, there is no snotty nose or teary/watery eyes, no body temp and no diarrhea.

Try again please. :)


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sally P on December 13, 2009, 08:57:44 AM
Because pygmy goats are short, they tend to pick up a lot of dust from the bedding, hay etc.  Sounds more like just allergies from dust!!!!


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sunshine on December 13, 2009, 09:33:40 AM
I would think allergies too..


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: GotmygoatMTJ on December 13, 2009, 09:42:22 AM
Wouldnt allergies cause watery eyes and runny noses?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: herdmomma on December 13, 2009, 10:24:01 AM
Could he have possily eaten something that may have gotten lodged in his throat the wrong way and the coughing is his way of trying to dislodge it


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 13, 2009, 10:31:53 AM
Nope..this is a true illness..it's one that goats are very seceptible to.  Think in the line of parasite issues.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: bweaver1958 on December 13, 2009, 10:49:19 AM
Lungworm.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 13, 2009, 11:12:52 AM
Yes, Brenda that's right..good job.  :)

Now tell me what do I do for lungworm?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: herdmomma on December 13, 2009, 02:52:53 PM
worm with Ivermectin and reworm again in 14-21 days inorder to kill the larvea


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sally P on December 13, 2009, 03:14:16 PM
If you are saying lung worm----that's not the first place I would go.  And hno--they don't have to have runny noses and eyes with allergies!!


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 13, 2009, 03:57:24 PM
either way..that was the symptoms description in Jack Maulden's site..chronic coughing.  I was just saying that it wasn't allergies and it is the first sign of Lungworm..a cough that does not go away with treatments.  Not all coughing is allergy related and this is what I'm conveying here.  Sometimes we need to look much deeper into a dry chronic cough.

Ivermectrin, Ivomec, can be used to kill Lungworms..the most efficient wormer to use though is cydectin.  The reason being is because Ivomec is useless in many areas due to the over use of it.



Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 13, 2009, 07:02:34 PM
Now here's one for you..you'll have to study this one.  It won't come as easy as the symptoms sound.  Do your research.  Look at all the symptoms..if we need to, I'll post links to help you find this one..tell me too, do I need a vet or can I deal with this one at home?

Symptoms:

Newly purchased Doe.
Owned her about 30 days
Onset of these issues started shortly after she arrived here.
She's 3 yrs old.
Never been bred.
Gradually working her onto our feed, but didn't receive grain products at the prior owners farm
She is experiencing some Hair loss.
Initial observation she has soft bones.
She now has soft but not runny diarrhea,
some salivation coming from her mouth on occassion.
Seems to be a little depressed
When I got her, her feet were sore, and swollen.
For as young as she is, she appears to be stiff in her joints
I purchased her as a rescue because it seems as though her growth has been retarded
I've constantly been working on her dermatitis
And a wound on her tail doesn't seem to want to heal.

What am I?  what do I do?

Research this one..it's not what you think it is.

Good luck.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sunshine on December 13, 2009, 07:25:06 PM
My first thoughts is Mineral deficient.. But will go look it up!! ;)


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: harmon_farms on December 13, 2009, 09:42:09 PM
It sounds like the symptoms for diabetes in a human, lol


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: herdmomma on December 14, 2009, 04:26:19 AM
Could it be from copper deficiency


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 14, 2009, 06:08:59 AM
You're on the right track..it is a mineral deficiency.  It's not a copper deficiency though.  Here's a hint..it was discused in a thread not too long ago..I believe it's in the Vet Clinic. 



Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sunshine on December 14, 2009, 10:59:07 AM
Selenuim? Because if a goats has dry flaky skin alot of times adding BOSS to the feed take care of it... But I dont know if its the Vit E oil or the selenium that takes care of it. Or Both?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sally P on December 14, 2009, 11:27:15 AM
It's the Vit. E.  When  your goats have very dry flaky skin, you want to give the aloe vera liquid drink---for soft skin and wonderful hair.  The Vit. E helps the aloe work so if you need a cream to rub on, make sure you get one that is aloe/E combined.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sunshine on December 14, 2009, 12:27:45 PM
But Selenium and VitE seem to go hand in hand..


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: dragonlair on December 14, 2009, 01:03:07 PM
Selenium needs vit e to be metabolized by the body. A lot of the minerals are like that-Calcium needs Vit D for instance.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 14, 2009, 03:39:25 PM
No, it's not selenium..dig a little deeper..here let me post you some links to research...you'll find it for sure. :)  One of these links contains the answer to this symptom..look them over good, it's printed exactly as the symptoms states. 

http://chinyerefarms.150m.com/healthcare/health.htm

http://www.jackmauldin.com/diseases.htm

http://www.goatwisdom.com/ch5deficiencies/gendefic.html


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: harmon_farms on December 14, 2009, 04:41:53 PM
Zinc :)


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: bweaver1958 on December 14, 2009, 06:11:22 PM
Calcium...give calcium and Vit D pills.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: dragonlair on December 14, 2009, 07:00:50 PM
Biotin-see vet?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Togepi on December 15, 2009, 03:17:09 AM
I agree with Rachel....Zinc deficiency.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 15, 2009, 03:25:42 AM
Yes, this is a Zinc Deficiency.

Goat wisdom states to contact a vet, and supplement.

I do agree with this, as zinc is a mineral they get from their feed rations.  Zinc deficiencies can be deadly if not treated for promptly and accurately. 

This one was a toughy huh?  I wanted this one in here so that when this arises again, we'll have some sort of information on it, as it's not a situation that happens on a regular basis. 

This link in Goat Wisdom should probably be kept in your favorites or bookmarked.  We should all know the signs of mineral deficiencies, and be able to compare our symptoms to a chart..so bookmark this link..keep it handy when you need it..print it off and keep it in your Vet Box if need be..but keep it!! :)
http://www.goatwisdom.com/ch5deficiencies/gendefic.html


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Togepi on December 15, 2009, 03:41:01 AM
WooHoo!  I finally got one!  Wouldn't have if not for you giving us the link. ???


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 15, 2009, 03:55:22 AM
you know Tog, I wouldn't have used that one had it not been for the post a few days back regarding the zinc issues.  I always do a long research of mineral deficiencies when a member is concerned about it being a lack of a certain mineral.  After having experienced a mineral deficiency on our farm when we first started, I'm really leery of missing out on that issue.  It can be deadly to a goat to be deficient in any one of the minerals they need.  It's something we should all be aware of, and know what minerals are considered to be "low" in our areas..however, it's even more important to know which ones you're really high in as well.  An overdosing of selenium for example is deadly..an overdosing of Iron is deadly..all these coincide with one another, and we need to know these things.

There are times when we shouldn't advise anyone to give any type of medications, and the zinc deficiencies are one of them.  This one is hard to control, and hard to regain it's proper levels.  This one requires the Vet.  I'm a firm believer that if you have to use the Iron Injections, you should consult your Vet before doing so.  If your supplements aren't working, then you need to contact a vet.  It's not something to play around with and experiment with.  You have no level of forgiveness in these issues.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 15, 2009, 04:10:31 AM
Symptoms:

Baby goats, 4 in total. 3 months old.
Got out of their pasture
Ate a plant in my yard called Salvation Jane

What do I do?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: herdmomma on December 15, 2009, 04:35:06 AM
Since salvation jane can cause liver damage if eaten continuously over time, I would probably not do anything except
destroy the plant to the root so this accident cant happen again


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: feral female on December 15, 2009, 10:48:57 AM
I agree with herdmama. Also keep a close eye on them for any symptoms that may arise.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Togepi on December 16, 2009, 02:16:54 AM
What about activated charcoal?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 16, 2009, 06:50:57 AM
this one was a trick question..

Salvation Jane is in the edible context of edible plants according to Fiasco Farms..

http://fiascofarm.com/goats/poisonousplants.htm

From all my research in the links I know of, Salvation Jane requires no treatments, and is a non toxic plant. 

If you have a link or found research showing this to be otherwise, please, by all means post the link and it's research of what parts of this plant is toxic and treatments thereof.  We want this to be factual, so please correct anything that's not totally complete information.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: herdmomma on December 16, 2009, 05:29:07 PM
Salvation Jane also known as Pattersons Curse contains Pyrrolizidine alkaloids that cause damage to the liver over time Horses are most suseptible folled by cattle , sheep and GOATS>  I found this information on Horseriders.org


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sally P on December 16, 2009, 05:37:05 PM
Never heard of either term or plant or whatever they are---nor are either listed in my plant encyclopedia.  So what is it really referring to?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 16, 2009, 06:05:30 PM
Our basic trusted sites such as
http://www.vth.colostate.edu/poisonous_plants/report/search.cfm
http://www.goatworld.com/health/plants/
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/servlet/CVMHighLight?file=htm/bc/ttox03.htm&word=salvation,jane

has no information period about Salvation Jane..however, Fiasco Farm does, and says it's edible.

The plant comes from Europe, but is also thought to be in Austrailia now.

this site that Herdmomma talks about doesn't list it from what I've read that it's toxic to goats..
http://www.horserides.org/salvationjane-patersonscurse.html

Herdmomma can you post the link in horse riders as to where you found that it was toxic to goats?  I can't seem to find it. 


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sally P on December 16, 2009, 08:10:46 PM
Still can't find it---even under it's Latin term:  Echium Plantegmeum  /  Lycopsis.
It is not native to the US but is an introduced species.  It is native to Europe and was introduced to Australia.  It is a weed.
One site said highly poisonous to horses---so I sure wouldn't let goatgs near it.

It has a blossom and plant somewhat like a balloon flower--only the blossoms are purple!!  Plants in the Bugloss family are related!!  It's not a good plant.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: pearplum on December 17, 2009, 03:10:26 AM


There's a picture of it here...

http://www.ukwildflowers.com/Web_pages/echium_plantagineum_purple_vipers_bugloss.htm

It says it's a British wild flower but only appears in the south of the country (which would explain why I have never seen it). Very pretty looking thing but it says there it's poisonous to horses and cattle if they eat a lot of it.
I wonder how it got such strange names? Purple Viper's Bugloss? Salvation Jane?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: herdmomma on December 17, 2009, 04:15:07 AM
Whenever a new test by Pam is posted, I take a few of the key words associated with the illness or in this case Salvation Jane and put them out on Google.  All I did was wrote salvation jane and goats and it took me to an link about its toxicity regarding horses ,cattle, sheep, and goats  (This link was right above the one from fiascofarms on google)


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 17, 2009, 06:00:36 AM
The link I posted and Herdmomma posted has perfect pictures of it, and says where it's commonly found.  Europe and Austrailia now has it introduced into their country. 

I found no where at all that it said it was toxic to goats. 

I'll have to check out Sue's link, haven't done that yet. 



Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sally P on December 17, 2009, 07:37:42 AM
It stands to reason that if it is poisonous to horses and cattle, it wouldn't be very good for goats either. 


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: herdmomma on December 17, 2009, 08:11:19 AM
On the right hand side of the page there is a heading that says "Dangers of Patersons Curse"  there is a picture below that heading and then under the picture is where it says it will affect horses, cattle, sheep and goats.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 18, 2009, 07:39:01 AM
A new one for you..

List the 4 major causative agents of diarrhea in goats

Later we'll discuse what treatments we'll give for each of these 4 agents.  For now, we'll just list the 4 agents.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sally P on December 18, 2009, 08:47:46 AM
Too much:  milk, molasses, apples & candy!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sunshine on December 18, 2009, 10:07:37 AM
LOL Sally I cant come up with anything better than that!
 Hmmm Hay to rich?
 Cocci?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Kit on December 18, 2009, 10:17:21 AM
Feed- milk too cold, hot, not mixed properly...Over eating grains or grasses/hay that doesn't settle well.
Stress
Poison
Cocci


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sunshine on December 18, 2009, 10:19:58 AM
Oh and some Deworming Meds will cause it.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 18, 2009, 10:34:40 AM
Feed- milk too cold, hot, not mixed properly...Over eating grains or grasses/hay that doesn't settle well.
Stress
Poison
Cocci

Hey Criss, good to see you back again. :)

Ok, Sally that one made me chuckle a good one!!  ;D

There are 4 caustic reasons for diarrhea in goats..
You've covered one of them with the management.
You've covered one of them with the Parasites.

So that's two down, with two more to go.. :)


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Kit on December 18, 2009, 11:06:50 AM
only other one I can think of in a hurry is bowel infection which they do get and it's NASTY due to cold weather.

otherwise I'm brain dead at the moment.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 18, 2009, 11:10:57 AM
Ok, Criss, that's a good thought..it actually wraps up two into one with "bowel" infection..but we'll add this one since most cases of "bowel" infections are bacterial..we'll add this one to the 3rd caustic agent..

You've covered the third one as "Bacterial". 

One more to go.  Opposite of Bacterial is??  ???


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sunshine on December 18, 2009, 11:11:56 AM
Viral....


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Kit on December 18, 2009, 11:22:18 AM
Yup, viral....viral disease such as Johnes disease will cause diarrhea


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 18, 2009, 11:25:42 AM
Yep Criss that's right..it is Viruses.

The 4th one is Viruses.

Good job everyone!!  That was really quick.

Now, lets take caustic agent number one "management" and tell me what would you do for "management" induced diarrhea.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Kit on December 18, 2009, 11:33:11 AM
it was actually sunshine that jogged that, she mentioned viral and I remember alot of diseases has diarrhea as symptom. ;)

think sally shoulda mentioned fruit cake.   ;D


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sunshine on December 18, 2009, 11:43:53 AM
Check your feed sources for problems. Cut out grain for a little while and give lots of hay.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 18, 2009, 11:44:22 AM
Whoops sorry Tonia..I missed your post on the last page.  Sorry bout' that.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: herdmomma on December 18, 2009, 12:30:14 PM
Keep up with a proper worming schedule


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sunshine on December 18, 2009, 12:47:13 PM
Thats okay.
 Usually management will come back to something with the feed. They have been switched to fast from one grain to another. Some thing in the hay or again switching to quickly. 
 They are to crowded....


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 18, 2009, 01:03:42 PM
that's right..management is usually your feeding regimen, so we want to take control over that and find it's exact reasoning.

When you get diarrhea from management reason..what do you do to treat that?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sunshine on December 18, 2009, 01:05:12 PM
 Pepto or Kaopectate(sp?) Or Slippery elm
Something to keep the rumen going.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Kit on December 18, 2009, 01:18:13 PM
Start by removing grains and grasses....dry lot or stall. Feeding only hay and electrolyte water. giving baking soda to ease upset tummies

I never give anything right off, because sometimes diarrhea is the bodies way of expelling what is not right and by stopping it can cause more damage. I wait 24 hrs


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sally P on December 18, 2009, 01:22:39 PM
I do hope you all realize I was just being funny!!!! (Or trying to be!!)


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Kit on December 18, 2009, 01:26:56 PM
What? you mean you won't share your fruitcake with your goats?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on December 18, 2009, 01:40:38 PM
I do hope you all realize I was just being funny!!!! (Or trying to be!!)

I knew it..I chuckled big time!!  I hate fruitcake though..hahaha. :)


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: harmon_farms on January 23, 2010, 01:32:10 PM
Psst... we should keep doing this. =P


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on January 23, 2010, 03:18:46 PM
oops' sorry ya'all, I forgot.  I'll do a little research here and find one that we haven't done.  Thanks Rachel for bringing it back up. 


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Pinsprings on January 23, 2010, 08:01:51 PM
Yes, I was enjoying this thread as well!


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: GotmygoatMTJ on January 23, 2010, 08:46:59 PM
Yay! lol


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on January 24, 2010, 08:18:57 AM
Symptoms:

4 yr old Boer Doe
3rd kidding
Birthed twins with assistance due to failure to progress in labor today
both kids born in a mummified state
Doe seems fine, but weak, she's on supportive therapy and an antibiotic.

What am I?  what caused this?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sally P on January 24, 2010, 09:07:57 AM
Oh my---I see a lot of diversified answers coming to this one!!!  I do hope you mean---what caused the doe's weakened state---not what caused the mummification of the kids.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on January 24, 2010, 09:11:53 AM
nope, I do mean what caused the mummification..there are three diseases this could apply to, but ONLY ONE causes mummification.  I have facts to back it up with. :)


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: dragonlair on January 24, 2010, 09:22:20 AM
Chlamydia can cause fetuses to mummify.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on January 24, 2010, 09:23:31 AM
it's in that family yes, but not the answer, this is both kids mummified, not just one. Close though, very close.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: dragonlair on January 24, 2010, 10:00:26 AM
Chlamydiosis is the disease caused by the Chlamydia psittaci bacteria. It can cause mummified kids, weak live births or regular stillborns, or a combo of them all. It could cause both twins to be mummified. It can also spread thru the herd and treating with tetracycline is the treatment. You need to treat all the animals in the herd too.

About 26 or so years ago, a friend of my husbands had a small herd of Nubians. He bought a new one from somewhere, not sure of where. She aborted, twin mummies and a stillborn that looked to be partially mummified. It was gross. He was going to just toss them in the manure pile, but I convinced him to get the vet involved. Good thing, the culture showed the chlamydia bacteria and he had to treat his entire herd with injectable tetracycline for Chlamydiosis. Back then the thought was that once they had it they would not get it again. Not sure if that thought still holds true of if they have a different school of thought these days. I'm trying to remember if he lost any other kids or not. I'm thinking he did, but his place was so nasty and he fed them only bakery leftovers and pretty nasty hay, so its hard telling if that's what caused the other event. I just remember telling him to get that one to the vet, he said he would and put it in the fridge but never did anything with it. The kid was still in his fridge 3 months later. In a plastic bag next to his leftovers. Next to a bathroom full of over filled litter boxes. Instead of cleaning he would just add a new one. That was the first and last time I ever went in his trailer. I wouldn't even let him anywhere near my place after that. Who knows what disease he had on his feet to track around. ugh. >:(


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: GotmygoatMTJ on January 24, 2010, 10:11:27 AM
Is it Toxoplasmosis?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on January 24, 2010, 11:46:33 AM
yes, this is Toxoplasmosis..it resembles a lot of the Chlamydia..however, it does cause both kids to be mummified not just one kid, and the others born weak or frail..here's what Onion Creek has to say..(**note** this is only one area of my research into Toxoplasmosis, I just personally like the way they describe it best)

Toxoplasmosis is a disease that causes abortions, weak kids, stillbirths, birth defects, and mummification of fetuses in pregnant does. Cats are the carriers of this protozoan known as Toxoplasma gondii. Cats, especially kittens under six months of age, pass the oocysts in their feces when they eat infected rodents, raw meat, or placentas of toxoplasmosis-infected animals.

Goats become infected with this parasite when they eat grain, grass, or hay that has been contaminated by cat feces. The infection enters the body through the small intestine and nearby lymph nodes, then spreads throughout the goat's system via the blood stream. Toxoplasma gondii can be encysted for years in the goat's brain, muscles, liver, or other vital organs. Some resistance to future infection (immunity) is usually acquired by previously-infected does. Male goats can be carriers. Weak kids born of Toxoplasmosis-positive does require extensive supportive care in order to survive.

Toxoplasmosis-caused abortions usually (but not always) occur during the first half of gestation. Once the pregnant doe has been infected, it takes about two weeks for the parasite to infiltrate the placenta and kill the fetuses. Blood tests can be done on does immediately after they have aborted, but because a doe can test 'positive' for Toxoplasmosis for years after becoming infected, it is easier to prove that the cause was not this protozoan by obtaining a 'negative' serological (blood) reading. It is reasonable to conclude that any doe testing positive for Toxoplasmosis as long as six months after she has aborted is still highly infected with the disease and therefore is a threat to the other animals in the herd.


the only differing information they give than what I've seen and experienced as well as some information from my furthering research of this disease is that Onion creek states "Toxoplasmosis-caused abortions usually (but not always) occur during the first half of gestation" My take on what I've seen personally, every pregnancy has gone full term. 

Mummified kids, will not progress labor.  You will need a vet to induce the labor and dilation with Oxytocin (sp), and some cases require Lutylace (sp) as well.  I say you'll need a vet because both drugs are Vet Script only, and our Vet doesn't hand these drugs out unless they are present when they are given. 

There's a lot of research for toxoplasmosis, and I'm here to tell you, it's better to have the placenta tested and set your worries and concerns at ease. 

GMG, you own now one of the girls that had a mummified kid on our property..not both her kids were mummified..just the one.  I showed great concern with this happening while my Vet was there helping me with this birthing.  It took us 45 minutes to get that mummified kid out of her.  The second kid born was healthy, normal and HUGE!! He weighed 15 pounds.  He lived 5 short minutes, and all our attempts failed to save him, including the shots under his tongue and mouth to mouth and CPR.  He was in there far too long, and probably just got way too much fluid in the lungs.

I was scared to death at what caused this to happen to her.  I had her placenta tested, her babies both tested, and she tested clean as a whistle for any types of diseases.  Now with this, my Vet mentioned all these things that could be the possibility of what and why this happened.  Blood work was drawn from her as well to make sure her blood was normal.  I ran a full research of all these diseases.

My researched showed that not only cats can carry toxoplasmosis to your Does, but so can birds of any breed or kind.  It's worth the research to learn the difference in the actual three diseases.  We should all be familiar with them. 


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Togepi on January 25, 2010, 01:54:16 AM
 O0  Good job, GMG!


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: GotmygoatMTJ on January 25, 2010, 05:26:47 AM
Thank you. :)

Now, is there a cure? Or is there just a treatment to get the doe back on her feet?  ???


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on January 25, 2010, 07:02:07 AM
Thank you. :)

Now, is there a cure? Or is there just a treatment to get the doe back on her feet?  ???

Now, from what I've read, this comes with differing views..from Jack Mauldin, Onion Creek, Goatwisdom and so forth.  Not one says that they are truly cured, but not one says when they aren't infectious any longer. 

According to my Vet, she said "Once a Doe has it, they have it for life..." she went on to explain further about the causes of it after that, and I've already posted the causes of it.  However, she did mention to me, and I can't verify this with any website information, but she said to me that a Doe infected with Toxoplasmosis may carry normal kids one time, and birth just fine, and then the next time have mummified kids again.  Can I prove that's factual, no I'm sorry I can't.

Now, this is the reason lots of folks will have the placenta tested.  You don't have to test the babies, just the placenta.  You don't have to run the blood testing.  But I did, I wanted to make absolutely sure my Doe was ok.  Moosie was quarantined after she birthed..not only because we were waiting for test results, but because she was seriously in bad shape after that.  Once the tests came back negative (all the tests, not just the placenta testing), then I gave her the option to stay in or go out with the herd, and she was not ready for that.  She wanted that cooked oatmeal and extra TLC, until the last day, when I was washing her up and she decided she had, had her fill of that..and whacked me a good one in the rump side, with her head and sent me sailing into a steel t-post.  That's when I said, "Oh look at you, you're standing, you feel better, TIME TO GO OUT!"  I wasn't happy with her at all!  Moosie was very wild back then.  She had her fill of being poked and prodded on..she enjoyed her groceries, but past that, don't put another needle in her, med's down her throat or wash her behind again!! 

Moosie was bred back to Roady and birthed two beautiful bucklings, healthy, happy, and grew fast.  She was a good mom to them.  She's never shown signs of anything wrong with her since.  We don't know why Moosie mummified the one kid..a freak thing to save the other baby I guess.  Her complicated birthing came from the mummified kid coming first, causing a non-progression in her labor..no dilation.  I couldn't get into her to get the mummified kid out, so I tried to dilate her myself, and that didn't work.  I had no choice, if I intended to save Moosie's life, but to call the Vet out.  Even the Vet had serious troubles getting that mummified kid out of there, even after giving her shots to progress/dilate her.  The mummified kid was not tiny..it was normal sized, seemed to be about 3 1/2 to 4 months in gestation, maybe a tad longer.  I wish I would have had my camera down there with me to take pictures of it, but alas I didn't and things moved so fast that I didn't think about it. 


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: GotmygoatMTJ on May 23, 2010, 05:40:53 PM
Will this topic come back anytime soon?   :( ???


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on May 23, 2010, 07:33:34 PM
Yes, if you want it to..I have a few more listed to post..is there enough interest in keeping it going?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sunshine on May 23, 2010, 07:43:16 PM
Sure!


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Dawn on May 23, 2010, 09:51:56 PM
Yes..I enjoy trying to figure them out


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: herdmomma on May 23, 2010, 11:08:43 PM
Definitly want this one back    YEA!!!!!


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Togepi on May 24, 2010, 04:42:35 AM
I vote yes! :)


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: harmon_farms on May 24, 2010, 12:27:33 PM
YES YES YES!  :BHH


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on May 24, 2010, 01:33:19 PM
Ok, here we go..back by popular demand. :)

Symptoms:

A bred 3 yr old Doe, 2nd kidding.

irregular leading now to sudden loss of appetite.
Depression and a drunken appearance.
Progressed to now unable to stand and lies on side making paddling movements.
High body temperature 104.5.
Very watery diarrhea
Seems to have stomach pains.

What am I?  What do I do for this?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sunshine on May 24, 2010, 02:12:40 PM
Start Drenching with something for the Diarrhea and electrolytes...


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: nancy d on May 24, 2010, 02:26:48 PM
Polio?
Prop up & drench, give fortified B. Stomach pains, in labor?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: GotmygoatMTJ on May 24, 2010, 04:07:22 PM
Listeria?



Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sunshine on May 24, 2010, 06:55:10 PM
Poisoning with the stomach pains?? If thats it then it would need Activated Charcoal. Listeria would be a low temp and Polio a high temp...Or other way around ???


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Ace on May 24, 2010, 07:29:50 PM
Polio low temp, Listeria high temp, Sunshine.  I'm thinking on this one...


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: nancy d on May 24, 2010, 08:16:51 PM
If it was poisen wouldnt she be foaming at the mouth?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on May 24, 2010, 09:28:08 PM
Let me help you with a few more symptoms..this may help...if it doesn't I'll give you the links to research to find out what this is..no it's not listeria, not polio, but could be a type of poisoning, but yet it's really not a poisoning to be treated as a poisoning..view these symptoms..I'll bet you get it after these. :)

Profuse slimy or water diarrhea.
Depression
Wobbly gait
Recumbancy (lying down on side with head down).
Intermitten Convulsions
Intermittent opisthotonos (head thrown straight over back). 


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Sunshine on May 24, 2010, 10:42:31 PM
Enterotoxemia! Electrolytes with Baking soda in it along with a few other things....


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on May 25, 2010, 05:55:28 AM
Bingo Tonia!!!  Nice job. :)

Yes, it does say that electrolytes mixed with baking soda for the duration of it's affects..with the high temps what should I do?  Antibiotics? Or not?  Call my Vet, or not?  The diarrhea, what do I do? 

This one is a toughy, the dead give away to this not being Polio or Listeria is the Profuse Slimy or watery Diarrhea, neither polio nor listeria accompanies diarrhea, rare cases might see some diarrhea, but it is very rare..there is a shot that should be given for this..can you tell me what shot that is?


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: harmon_farms on May 25, 2010, 07:34:25 PM
From what I can gather, and I'm going to quote directly from the source:

Quote
50 ml of specific hyperimmune serum intravenously every 4 to 8 hours in the valuable animal. In the subacute and chronic case, antitoxin along with Tetracycline orally at the rate of 5-10 mg/lb (11 to 22 mg/kg) bodyweight will usually effect a cure.

The source being www.goatworld.com. I think I would certainly call my vet. For the diarrhea, you can always give some pepto or something to help with it. I think, however, that after you treat the cause the symptoms will start going away. As for fever, I would think some baby aspirin at least would be safe, consult with your vet on Banamine or something for the fever. You can also use frozen peas, ice packs, etc on pulse points to help bring it down.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on May 25, 2010, 07:52:41 PM
there are other things to do as well..very good information there Rachel. :)

check out Jack Mauldins site..click on "diseases" and then read his personal write up about this illness.  I can post the link if you all want it.  Very interesting reading for sure.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: AACmama on July 08, 2010, 10:36:43 PM
Wow! What a terrific thread!!! I have learned so much reading through it. It must be quite a lot of work to come up with these scenarios, but I hope you will keep it going. Thanks for all the hard work and clever ideas.


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on July 19, 2010, 04:33:33 AM
you're welcome. :)  I haven't had a great deal of time to devote to symptoms and scenerio's here lately..I'll be able to get back to this soon though, and we'll start again.  There is one that isn't in any of the trusted sites that I want to share with everyone, however, it doesn't have a name, and the diagnosis isn't set or an exact treatment for it found.  It's hit and miss and trial and error so far...it's a 50-50 recovery rate thus far, so nothing is exact, but one that we can all learn and share from.  Three cases have arose that I know of so far, none in the same state nor the same farm..so this one is really rare and very odd.  We'll compile the information and treatments and get with you all on it soon. :)


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: Boudicea Farm on January 21, 2011, 06:20:09 PM
a 1 cc shot of BoCe will help get rid of floppy kid syndrome, to help guard against it a boce shot for the dam prior to kidding and free feed lots of minerals. tried to play the game but couldn't figure out how to get the answer under the question


Title: Re: Test yourself..
Post by: imalilbirdie on January 22, 2011, 07:10:04 AM
I've really let this post go to the back burner haven't I?  I apologize for that.  I'll get some time next week and place a new symptom here for our viewing. :)