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Topic: First Time Goat Owner  (Read 12490 times)
TinTin92
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Posts: 43



« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2011, 01:04:00 AM »

dragon, what breed of dogs do you have?

and wow, there is a lot of different views for collars lol. i have no horns or anything they can catch on, but i do live on one of the main streets in my town and my dogs wear collars, mine has a ID tag and i'm glad because he has gotten out a couple times and i have gotten him back because of it. however, his brother, my boyfriends dog, does not wear an ID tag on his collar because my boyfriend doesn't like the jingling, so he'd rather his dog get lost and not returned because he gets easily annoyed, and his dog jumps the fence all the time.

but i was thinking of getting ID tags for the dwarfs in case they ever got out and someone found them lol, if not all the time, they would at least wear them when i am not at home and they are.
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imalilbirdie
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« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2011, 06:44:49 AM »

TinTin,
If you live on a busy main street and your goats get out, you won't have to worry about getting them back..they'll be hit by a car before that.  You need to make absolutely sure they can NOT get out of your fence.  In some states if a livestock animal gets out and is hit by a car, the owner of that animal is responsible for damages to vehicle, property and human.  That's a serious issue in Missouri and Arkansas, so check your state laws on that.

In LA, AR, and MO a leash law is governed.  All animals must be on a leash while outdoors, or outside the fence.  In the park here, I have no choice to put my dogs on a leash and they wear collars, because I don't have a fenced yard here.  My Dogs are guard dogs, they bite, so I don't dare let them run loose here.  Back home where we had fences, timber land, predators and varmints, we did not keep collars on our dogs unless it was required (vet check up's, or a trip to town in the trucks)..We use to hunt coon hounds, and we'd have one out hunting and they'd get too far off and wouldn't come right back and we'd have to leave them in the woods and come back the next morning and get them.  We found on more than one occasion our dogs were hung on fence lines or higher tree limbs by their collars, dead when we found them.  After you see something like that, you won't use collars on your dogs any more in situations where it's not needed. 

The type of dog that Dragon is talking about is a Livestock Guardian Dog..aka Great Pyr, Anatolian, Komondor and so forth..those dogs live with the goats, not the human..these are not pets, they are protectors, they bond with the goats.  Easily they can get those collars hung on branch, fence posts, and when fighting to protect, be hindered by a predator grabbing that collar and having a good item to sling them around with.  Nope my LGD's will never wear collars. 

I've seen goats hung by collars on fence posts, or limbs, or caught up in brambles that they couldn't get out of, some survive some die.

The choice is of course yours..but for as many pro's to it, I'll give just as many more con's to it. 
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~ Birdie ~
dragonlair
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« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2011, 09:07:57 AM »

I have 6 Alaskan Malamutes, 1 Alaskan Husky and an English Setter. I am putting a deposit on a Great Pyrenees pups to be in with my goats.

All my animals wear collars. The dogs have their rabies and state license on the collars (until they chew them off anyway). I kind of like the jingling sounds, but you can put an elastic around the tags that keeps them from making the noise.

I've had goats for 30 some odd years and never had problems with their collars getting hung up but I have had to grab them in a rush and was very glad for the collars. Panicked goats don't do well coming when called.

I've had dogs even longer, 50 + years, and they always wear collars or harnesses. Never had issues with them getting hung up, but they never run loose, ever. They are in the house, penned, pulling a sled or on leashes. I am too afraid of having one hit by a car to allow them to run at large. They don't hunt, well they would if allowed to run free, but there is really no reason for them to be running loose anyway. The LGD will be penned with the goats, cause I live in an area with houses and lots of traffic.

Goats are escape artists, so make sure your fencing is really tight and sturdy!
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DragonLair Farm and Kennel in Central Maine with Nubians, Lamanchas and Oberhasli. Of course, combinations of 2 or more breeds happens also.
TinTin92
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« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2011, 11:52:00 AM »

it will be sturdy and. ooh i love Malamutes Smiley i'm trying to convince my boyfriend to let me get one, but i want a red or silver one, and they are not cheap. but they are good dogs. an i like the jingling too, it tells me where my dog is, since he doesn't always listen lol.

and birdie. they shouldn't get out because i am making sure to build it good and strong, but my dogs got out of their fence by jumping it and the neighbors put them in theur yard for us until we get back.
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Sally P
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New Sharon, Maine


« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2011, 12:44:38 PM »

Dragon has had her dogs a long time and knows how to handle them with the rest of her livestock.  I would not sell you a goat or goats if I found out you had a Malamute.  They can be lovely dogs, but----you never know when that inbred instinct is going to take over and the dog go after the goats.  Yes---it does happen.
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dragonlair
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« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2011, 06:12:57 PM »

Never trust a Mal with any livestock, they will kill them in a heartbeat. When they are outside, mine are penned in livestock panels or chain link fencing with electric fencer along the top just to make sure they never get out. The bottom of the fence is lined with wooden pallets to keep them from digging out. They will jump the fence, dig under and even climb to get out.

My Mals were all raised with the goats. That doesn't matter when the prey drive kicks in, they will kill the goats and eat them.

Do a lot of reading on Mals before you buy. They need a lot of hard work/exercise daily or they become destructive. They need a strong "leader" or they become the leader and will make your life miserable. They are very intelligent and let you know it, you have to be on your toes 24/7. They dig like crazy, my yard looks like the moon with all the craters they have nicely dug. They do not willingly take commands unless they think there is something in it for them. They are stubborn, headstrong, independent, and like to play mind games with you. For the most part they do not like small dogs and will kill them. They also have an issue with same sex aggression, especially the females. They have a strong prey drive. They will take off and keep going if they get loose. And they shed like you wouldn't believe. Think shedding sheep. Until I started using a large heavy duty shop vac, I went through at least 2 vacuum cleaners a year. Their wool killed them. The Shop vac lasted 2 years before the hair did it in.

Mals are also very strong. They are the draft horses of the dog world. They can easily pull 1000 pounds like it was nothing. That's what they were bred to do. It's an adventure sometimes taking them for a walk.

I LOVE my Mals because of the way they are, but, they are not for everyone. I knew what I was getting into when I got mine first one, sort of.
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DragonLair Farm and Kennel in Central Maine with Nubians, Lamanchas and Oberhasli. Of course, combinations of 2 or more breeds happens also.
TinTin92
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« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2011, 08:37:24 PM »

oh, and i know what i would be getting into as well, i had a malamute a few years ago, and i know they dig and climb and jump, but i fell in love with them after having mine. i know it will be a while, until we get more land before i get mine, but i do want another one someday.

although i did not know that they would kill any livestock really, i knew how they were but i know people that have them around livestock.

and basically, a LGD is a big dog? i mean huge? cuz i've seen an anatolian, they're pretty good sized dogs, and what makes these breeds better over others to be a LGD? just the way that they are?
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Sunshine
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« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2011, 08:46:50 PM »

Anatolians, Great Pyrenees and other breeds like them are bred Specifically for Guarding Livestock. That is why they are called Livestock Guardian Dogs or LGD's. Candace one of the mods here on GB can give you a lot of info on LGD's. You need to look at what the different breeds of dogs are or were bred for before trying them with your other animals. Instincts don't die out easily in animals.
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TinTin92
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« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2011, 08:50:49 PM »

i did not know that, ok thanks for that information Smiley i thought people just called the dogs they got to guard Livestock Guardian Dog, i didn't know that there were specific dogs bred for it
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imalilbirdie
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« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2011, 08:52:17 PM »

the LGD stems back to the olden ages..protectors of livestock.  A true breed.  They have the instincts to protect.  Like the BC's and Aussie's, they are livestock working dogs..they work the livestock instead of protecting the livestock..The Mal's and Huskys' stem from their ancestors of the Wolf..if you've seen Mal's and Husky's around Livestock animals, the owners were fools to trust that..it's their nature to kill..and kill they will do.  Sorry dont mean to sound snotty or hateful, but you do not ever trust a Mal or Husky around livestock animals.

Yes, the LGD means Livestock Guardian Dog, and yes they are huge and have tons of force in their bodies and mouths..I've never ever seen an LGD defeated..Our Pyr took on two Rotties and whipped them both before I got out there with my shot gun which both were shot right away.  J-Belle our Anatolian cross took on a pack of coyotes and when she was 8 months old a Pit Bull and she whipped them all good..all coyotes and stray dogs are shot dead on the spot.  

I treasure my LGD's..they are one of the greatest creation that God made.  No other dog can compare to them.  I dearly love my Shepards, but they are "my" personal guard dogs..they are huge..but I would never ever put them out to be guardians of my livestock.
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~ Birdie ~
TinTin92
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« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2011, 08:56:48 PM »

wow, that is very good to know, and interesting, now i know that when we move onto bigger property, and i get more goats and sheep, to get a LGD, and not to just use our mutts like my boyfriend would do.

and earlier in the posts it was said that they are the livestocks dog, not a persons dog or pet, does that mean that they won't do well with people or are just better and happier with livestock?
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Sunshine
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« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2011, 07:10:52 AM »

They are better with the livestock Candace can give you more info on how to go about handling them. Because I know hers are not aggressive towards people. LGD's are more independent working dogs then say some that work on command. They are awesome to watch when they know their job.
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imalilbirdie
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« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2011, 09:50:57 AM »

LGD's depending on the breed you get will enter act with humans..the pyr's seem to be more tolerant of strangers than the anatolian or Komondor are.  Anatolians and Komondors do not except strangers easily or readily even if you're out there with them..they may not bite when you're there, but God forbid they go in alone..they are destine to be bitten.  Our Pyr's would bite strangers too, especially if they didn't like them and I'm sure Candace's Pyr's would do the same.  The LGD's read people better than we do..the LGD's have an instinct that they know a bad person, before they ever enter the pastures with their charges. 

They are independent working dogs, there isn't much training to be done to a good LGD..sometimes you have to give little disciplines to say "No, we don't play with baby kids!", or "No, this is your pasture you stay in it, not the bucks pen!"  Little things like that.  Candace will be able to help you train one and help you with issues that come up.  She taught me, and I know she can teach you.

Muts should never be turned loose with your goats for protection or unattended.  They aren't made for that kind of environment.

LGD's bond with your goats, but yet you can still be the "alpha" to your LGD..and they will readily come to you, but when you leave they must return to their goats, and not follow you..so you don't want to over humanize them..these dogs aren't taught a lot of tricks..I did teach mine to sit on command and come when called but that was it..we didn't teach any more "tricks" so to speak, than that.  They are working dogs, and work they will do..and God forbid any preditor comes near your goats.  You can socialize them to the dogs you have as pets..but you will still need to be with that pet dog when it's around your LGD's or in with your herd..the Pyr's won't tolerate it either..so don't just walk out and leave your pet dog in there and expect the LGD to tolerate the dog around his/her goats.  It won't happen.  There will be a fight.  The LGD will control the situation, and they will protect your herd at all costs.
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~ Birdie ~
dragonlair
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« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2011, 11:48:46 PM »

Birdie is right, never trust a Mal or Husky around your livestock, especially smaller animals like goats, sheep and poultry. Up until just a few generations ago, Mals were turned loose in the summer months on an island to care for themselves. They lived like wolves, hunting and raising their pups. That's why Mals have such a strong instinct to hunt, because only the strong ones survived the non-snowy seasons. Hunting is as much a part of their make up as pulling and breathing. And they move quick, too quick for a human to react. I took one of mine out one day to pee. One of the hens had gotten out of her pen. i didn't see her, but my Mal, Daisy, did. Before it even registered that she was after something, she had it in her mouth, dead and was starting to eat it. 2 seconds maybe? If that had been a goat kid, it would have been just as quick. I gave the command to give, she did, but that sure didn't help the hen at all. At the time, Daisy was older and slowing down. if it had been a younger dog it would have been even faster.
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DragonLair Farm and Kennel in Central Maine with Nubians, Lamanchas and Oberhasli. Of course, combinations of 2 or more breeds happens also.
Marta
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(Crimea)ooooops whats that there then?


« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2011, 02:14:26 AM »

Thought I posted this a few days ago, but for some reson it did not go through lol woops, may be out of date lol

now then now then, a preservative over here in home made bottling is not the same as anywhere else, Now saying that, what are you talking about BOB?????? I hear you say, well let me get to the point here before anyone gets excited and dont go red lol.......
We preserve our tomatoes, cauliflower, baby cucumbers etc etc etc in a vinegar/water, salt, garlic and herb mix (dont tell anyone Babushka I have seen actually drink it her self) eeeeeek!!!!!!!!
Anyway Marta and Tamara actually love the stuff and would if given the chance drink gallons of the stuff, I have to re strict them but they seem to be healthy enough and there has been no side effects so far, in fact Marta looks slightly better for days afterward, and they do not suffer the horrid flies ether. So what I am saying is, Vinegar has alot of uses, but what makes me wonder is it good for a heavy milking goat, what with acidosis etc, they did not get any during kidding time as I read some where that the stomach goes through a change during that period........


Collars I have started putting them back on Tamara and Marta, Tamara does not climb any more and Marta is too lazy., in fact its the collar on Marta thats helping to keep her udder bag on now lol, when out walking I take the bag off but in the pen it goes straight back on as I need the milk for the 2 orphans, Jasmin and Flash hate it lol cos the look on thier faces says THAT MINE!!!!!!! (wellllllllllllll they are 10 weeks old and anyway......Jasmin looks like she is 13 months pregnant, she is like a barrel  Huh?
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dont tell me to give em drugs we aint got non here in Crimea, its all herbs and such
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