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| | |-+  Bovi-Serum (Bo-Se) question
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Topic: Bovi-Serum (Bo-Se) question  (Read 1047 times)
jbowen
Bouncing Babies
**
Posts: 75


« on: April 01, 2013, 07:21:13 AM »

A friend has 3 kids born a week prematurely of a mother who was too thin all winter. Mother has no milk, but there are other goats we are getting milk from. I've never used Bo-Se before but had been told to have some on hand which I did. I gave an SQ shot of Bo-Se, 5 cc to the babies, 10 cc to the mother, 1 shot per day for 2 days. It seemed to help the babies. Can I continue to give Bo-Se and can I give it twice a day rather than once a day until they are stronger?
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imalilbirdie
Herdmasters
Goat Genius
*****
Posts: 17544


Southern Louisiana


« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2013, 09:32:32 AM »

NO...you are very close to overdosing the kids and mom.  Selenium can be overdosed and when it is there's nothing you can do to counter it.  The kids and the Doe will die.

It usually calls for one shot...if needed another can be given the next week preferrably in two weeks.

That's an awful big dose for babies and mom.
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~ Birdie ~
taelir
Goat Genius
*****
Posts: 579


« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2013, 09:52:58 AM »

That is a MASSIVE dose. Normal dose is 1/2cc per kid or 1/4 for mini breeds. Giving 5cc per kid has a very, very high chance of being fatal.

Sorry to be blunt, Bo-Se is not something to be unsure of. I really hope the kids are okay.
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Sally P
Goat Genius
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Posts: 8943


New Sharon, Maine


« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2013, 10:05:41 AM »

Ohhh----careful with the amounts you are using.  That was more than double the amount for a doe and the kids.
Besides---a shot of BoSe won't do any good for the kid ujnless the kid is at least 14 days old.  Their immune systems aren't ready for shots before then.   You would be better of to order some Selenium/Vit. E gel from Jeffers.  It comes in a big tube and lasts for a long time.  Just a little teeny dab on the finger for newborn kids.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 10:07:33 AM by Sally P » Logged
jbowen
Bouncing Babies
**
Posts: 75


« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2013, 10:25:29 AM »

Dang! OK--I used the doseage given in the Hoegger catalog where I bought the stuff.
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taelir
Goat Genius
*****
Posts: 579


« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2013, 10:29:45 AM »

Wait a minute.

Did you use Bovi-Sera or Bo-Se? Those are two completely different things.
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jbowen
Bouncing Babies
**
Posts: 75


« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2013, 10:39:34 AM »

OK! I just clarified with Hoegger Co.--it is NOT Bo-Se I gave them. It was Bovi-Sera, evidently 2 different things.They stuck by giving 5 ccs of Bovi-Sera to the newborns, one shot for 2 days. They said additional shots on additional days will not help.
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taelir
Goat Genius
*****
Posts: 579


« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2013, 10:47:31 AM »

Whew! Well now you know why we were freaking out. Bo-Se is indeed very, very different from Bovi-Sera.

What are you trying to treat for? We don't use Bovi-Sera (for our goats OR cattle) because we question how well it actually works.
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jbowen
Bouncing Babies
**
Posts: 75


« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2013, 10:53:01 AM »

They were born a week premature from a weak Mom. They are very weak. Just went on the strength of the Hoegger suggestion that it would be a "silver bullet" to strengthen them.
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imalilbirdie
Herdmasters
Goat Genius
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Posts: 17544


Southern Louisiana


« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2013, 11:25:58 AM »

No..it's not..I've posted a thread to saving premature babies...even that is iffy at best with premature newborns but I have spoken with several folks that said it has saved their lives...I on the other hand did not save the premature baby that I received.  If they are seriously premature...a week or more, they usually do not live.  Their tiny wee' lil' organs are just not developed enough to survive.

I agree that Bo-Se and Bovi-Sera are two totally different items, and I agree with Taelir...we do not use it either.
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~ Birdie ~
imalilbirdie
Herdmasters
Goat Genius
*****
Posts: 17544


Southern Louisiana


« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2013, 11:26:51 AM »

Here's the link to the premature medication for premee babies...
http://goatbeat.net/index.php?topic=13286.0
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~ Birdie ~
sweetgoats
Herdmaster
Goat Genius
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Posts: 2855



WWW
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2013, 01:53:36 PM »

  I am so glad that was not BO SE that you gave.  My heart sank when I read the amounts. 
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Lori

Home of the Colorado State Fair Grand Champion doe, 2003,2004,2005,2007,2008,2009. and 2011.
Premier Breeder and Premier Exhibitor for 2008 and 2009.
taelir
Goat Genius
*****
Posts: 579


« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2013, 02:18:53 PM »

why is mom weak? that may be an indication as to why the kids are weak. prematurity is one issue (and a serious one for sure), but if there is something wrong with mom then you need to take a hard look at it because it may be causing issues with her babies.

dopram is something to look at (I haven't done enough of my own research on it to make a decision on it myself), but supportive care is the #1 thing for premature animals. keep them warm, keep them hydrated, use small amounts of nutri-drench or power punch, and try to keep them up and moving so their muscles don't weaken further. I've saved a number of very premature animals (from different species) with careful care. birdie is right that you can't save every animal, but there's always a chance.
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jbowen
Bouncing Babies
**
Posts: 75


« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2013, 03:16:41 PM »

I don't know why the mom is weak. But my friend told me she had triplets last year and never did regain her weight. He said he has wormed her several times with Cydectin. I'm wondering if she might have a tapeworm? He has minerals out and does feed his goats well from what I've seen. His other goats look fine. He thinks maybe one of his more dominant goats may have beat up on the pregnant doe possibly causing her to go into labor. Any suggestions you may have about fattening up a thin mama will be passed on to the owner. And I'll help all I can.
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dragonlair
Goat Genius
*****
Posts: 8196



« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2013, 05:45:52 PM »

If she never bounced back from last year she should not have been bred this year. A doe should be in good flesh when bred, not thin or poor from that years kidding and feeding her kids.

If she is thin, she could have Ketosis or milk fever. If she has either, she is not able to make milk for the kids.

If she is underweight, she won't have enough milk for the kids and any feed she eats will go to making milk for the kinds not support her own body.

She needs to be checked for worms. Tapeworm has very little effect on an adult goat. It will cause problems in kids, but not adults. How is her color (the membrane in the inside of her eyes)? Is she in a pen by herself with her kids or with the herd? She may be at the bottom of the pecking order and not get enough food.

Bovi-serum is just a big gimic to make money, it doesn't do anything. Get large doses of Vit B complex into that doe.  Slowly increase her grain, give hay free choice. If the fat % in the grain is not at 5%, add some flax seed meal, rice bran meal (or pellets) or just plain cooking oil on her grain to add fat. Fat supplies energy to help keep her body working and produce milk for the kids. For quick energy you can give molasses and Karo syrup orally with a syringe or turkey baster and then add it to her water. BOSS topped dressed on the grain will help too.
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DragonLair Farm and Kennel in Central Maine with Nubians, Lamanchas and Oberhasli. Of course, combinations of 2 or more breeds happens also.
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