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Topic: I need advice  (Read 1737 times)
dragonlair
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« on: July 19, 2014, 08:25:33 PM »

I originally got my 2 Prys to protect my place and the beings on it. They did a great job against humans and other predators.

Now, my son has been bringing people home and introducing them to my 2 Pyrs and letting them pat and play with the dogs. NOT WHEN I AM HOME AND TOTALLY AGAINST MY ORDERS! I am beside myself with anger right now.

Now my dogs don't really growl or carry on when a human walks into the yard. I couldn't understand why until I caught his friends walking over the fence and calling to the dogs...by name. grrrrrrrr.

So, while "the girls" are great against animal predators, that really isn't my problem. My place is bothered more by the human type.

How can I make the girls remember that humans are not their friends? I want them to go back to barking and "herding" the trespassing humans into a corner and barking/growling at them until I arrive. I don't want to punish them for doing what they were retaught by my son, because it is not their fault.

Suggestions???????
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DragonLair Farm and Kennel in Central Maine with Nubians, Lamanchas and Oberhasli. Of course, combinations of 2 or more breeds happens also.
imalilbirdie
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« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2014, 10:11:30 PM »

Since these girls are Pyr's this is probably best left to Candace....the Pyr is a gentle giant and as Candace once explained to me about Bonnie and Clyde and the difference between them and how J-Belle reacted to strangers was, "the Pyr sizes the situation up, if they feel it's a threat they take care of it, if they feel it's not a threat, they let it be known that it's ok unless a slip up happens and then they take charge."  So...with that, and them being Pyr's, you're gonna have to halt the socialization...one way or the other.

Now, with my Personal protection dogs ... they are absolutely NEVER introduced to a stranger...friends and family, that's a different thing, however they are taught the words "nice"..."easy"..."out" and "away"  I use one word commands for my dogs...my "watch" word is a different word that only I know, and my "attack" word is a word that only I know and I use.  My dogs know that difference.  They are never ever introduced to a stranger until that stranger is well known by us...then they will still attack a door if that person that they just met 5 minutes ago, leaves and comes back...they are still protecting even though they've been introduced to the person.  Once in the door with my commands and all is well, but I can also take that dog and turn that dog into a violent aspect of protection even if they know that person well.  Heck I've even turned them on Shane when we were horsing around, and they did what I told them to do...didn't hurt Shane but did grab his rump, and he did feel it. hahaha.

Anyway...there is a big difference in territorial protection and personal protection...Sammy, will protect me and our property...but will not do so, until it's called for...for example..the day we tattoo'd Weedle...Weedle screamed and Sammy was in the house, and not outdoors with the three of us who were tattoo'ing Weedle...when Weedle screamed (which wasn't even really a loud scream but enough Sammy heard it), Sam went totally nuts inside the house, bitting the window, and since it's got wooden slats in the panes of the window he was bitting those too...he was digging at the door trying to get it opened and barking up a storm...Sammy was wanting to protect Weedle. 

Sasha on the other hand (a Russian Shepherd), is the opposite, she's more human protector...she will climb that door with teeth hitting the door in an instant when someone walks up, let alone knock or ring the door bell.  Sasha is not socialized with hardly any one...I can set Sasha off with just the word "Listen"...her hackles will come up and teeth are bared, and she's going for the door barking.

So, you have to make it perfectly clear that your Sons friends are not welcome in your home unless you are there...PERIOD.  If you truly want these dogs to be guard dogs...then if he can't follow your rules then he's going to have to move out...the dogs are confused...these strangers are now their friends...you are at work, and you are what they protect...they don't feel a need to protect when you're gone.  They will snap back into their routine, but the socialization has to stop.  Your Son will have to understand what the dogs jobs are and how important that is to you...if he can't then life at your place will definitely have to change.

I hope my words haven't offended you...but I do know how badly you need the protection after that fire and all...it's important for you, and your security and safety that those dogs, carry out their jobs, the way you feel they need to do...and if your Son cares about you, then he'll understand and abide by your requests and rules.  I have to do the same thing here...there's a fine line...and it's a line of confusion or understanding when it comes to the dogs.

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~ Birdie ~
dragonlair
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« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2014, 04:03:25 PM »

It is a big bone of contention between my son and I right now. He doesn't usually bring people around when I am home and I have told him time and time again to keep people away.

I have tried to kick him out. I have even had a trespass order against him, but none of the police depts will enforce it. If I lock the house, he breaks windows or bends the frames to get in. I still have several windows that have been broken that cannot be repaired because the frames are rusted in place. He has destroyed doors to gain entrance. He sneaks in the back way so the neighbors can't see him. Keeping him away is almost impossible when I am not home.
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DragonLair Farm and Kennel in Central Maine with Nubians, Lamanchas and Oberhasli. Of course, combinations of 2 or more breeds happens also.
Pat
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« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2014, 09:52:16 PM »

Dang...really sorry to hear this.  It sounds, however, that it's possible that he will be incarcerated yet again before too long.  If he's acting out like this at home, it's likely he's doing it elsewhere.

What a doggone shame.  I'm pretty sure (from what I know of you) that he was raised better.  Maybe there is something to the "bad seed" theory.

Sure do wish we could get together for a coffee, so you could have someone to talk to, to rant to and to vent to.  I'd be happy to listen...then we could talk about our goats (much better "kids", right?)

Hang in there, and know we are all on your side.

Let us know how it goes, and we'll be sending good vibes your way

Pat
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imalilbirdie
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« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2014, 06:16:40 AM »

I see the problem now...and this is a doozie too.  Deb....at this point I'm at a loss for words...there are drastic measures you can take, but this is your son...do you take them or not?  There is an alarm system at Radio Shack that doesn't alert the police but will sound off VERY LOUDLY and alert all sorts of folks around you...they sell them for auto's and homes...maybe something like that installed on your doors and windows would scare the pants off him knowing that it's alerted all the neighbors and they'll call the cops and he'll run off?

Past that, other than the forceful drastic measures...Dragon there's not much more you can do...but Son or no Son, if he were destroying my house, my property, I'd have him arrested pure and simple...and yes, I do mean that...I raised my Son with that fear in him...you knowingly screw up, you pay the price, no matter how small or large the screw up is...I always told that boy, "you get in trouble with the Law, don't call me, because your rear end will sit in jail."  Thank God, and I truly mean that, THANK GOD, that boy never screwed up and got into trouble.  Now that he's grown, and old enough to be brave enough to tell me things, I am truly more thankful than ever because the temptation was there, along with the invitation, so he made the right choices in life, and all I can say is God was at the head of that.

Your Dogs are not going to keep him away...they may even have a little fear of him, to where they are submissive to him...you can't change that, and that may never come out of them even after he's gone.  I know a certain tone of my voice will cause Sammy to become "fearful submissive" and I have hated that in him since the first time he demonstrated that...He's never EVER been hit, but has been scorned strongly...especially when he was tearing up all my socks!!!  He would tear up 3 or 4 pair a day, new or old.  When he stopped tearing up my socks, he started tearing up Shane's good slack socks (not his white work socks like the ones he was tearing up of mine), and I couldn't have that...so no pair of socks was ever left where he could get to them, until that habit was broken and forgotten about.  I don't know if this fearful submissive thing is a trait of the Pyr or not...I know Sasha will just lay her ears back and look sad out her eyes when she's being scorned...but she doesn't show fear at all...just sad, like "I'm sorry."  We don't hit our dogs...I've never ever liked instilling fear into any animal..unless that animal is attacking me and it's a defense mode.
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~ Birdie ~
dragonlair
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« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2014, 10:47:35 AM »

Birdie, I have had him arrested several times. Most of his prison and jail time have been for crimes committed against me. However, for every crime he has been sentenced for he has gotten away with 10 more. The cops, District Attorney and the Judge just don't see a big problem with a kid committing a crime against the family unless it is an assault. Especially if that kid has mental health issues, which the law enforcement and the legal system refuse to address.

When my ex and I split up, I was working and supporting all 4 sons. He took off with his teen age girlfriend in a tractor trailer. When it came time for the divorce, I could not afford a lawyer. He could and got one because he got money from his parents and was not paying child support.

He wanted the 2 younger kids, I think mostly to get back at me for into being the person he tried to change me in to. He certainly never did much with the kids. I ran the farm, worked and took care of the kids. He did the dishes and swept the floors. That was it. He was verbally and mentally abusive to me, which is not a crime. Towards the end he used his martial arts classes (he was the instructor) to physically abuse me.  I joined his classes to try and save the marriage for the kids sake. He, a black belt, would hit, kick, throw..whatever...me in the dojo. Then, at home he would act like he wanted a hug or a kiss and then do a nerve strike on me. (Talk about pain....oh, man.)  Again, impossible to get someone to take this as a crime. Plus DV was not enforced much back then.

So, in court, his lawyer convinced the judge that I could not properly care for the 2 youngest because i worked. He would be a better parent because he didn't work. He got the kids and pretty much ignored them. My child support went to his new teen age wife for her clothes and hobbies. I finally stopped paying and bought the kids what they needed (which I did anyway) and bought weekly groceries for them.

Jarrod started having mental health issues when he was about 8. Serious anger problems, assaultive behavior, compulsive lying and actually believing his lies, and stealing. He stole from his family members. I tried to get his father to get him help. Nope...no son of his would have any kind of mental problems. (I later found out that his family was full of serious mental health issues)

My ex used the kids as pawns in his game of manipulation. He told then lies about me, which fortunately they did not believe. (One of the best was that I was possessed by the devil). When that didn't work, he used me as a form of punishment for the boys, thus punishing all of us. If one boy did not do his chores, homework, acted out etc, they could not come see me on the weekends (or vacation.....).

Then, one Columbus day weekend, I got the 2 youngest for the weekend. Jarrod (who was then 15) was dumped off permanently because he chased his new step mother (the former teen age one left my ex for an even older man who had money) around the kitchen with a knife. My ex didn't tell Jarrod he was not going home until he arrived to pick up the youngest. Then he just said I don't want you any more. That simply. Totally threw Jarrod off the deep end and he has been worse since. I got Jarrod into therapy immediately but it was too late.

The boys want nothing to do with their dad, except the youngest one and that is only for any money he can get from him. My ex, and the court systems, ruined my 2 youngest kids. The 2 oldest are doing well in life. The oldest is the head of the IT department of a large international  corporation. The second son was career Coast Guard, and is not a professional photographer in the Miami area. The 2 youngest did not fare as well. You know about Jarrod, and Bump is in prison for 4 more years after already serving 12 years. Bump was accepted at the same college for computer sciences where his oldest brother got his degrees. He was going to go to RI and live with his brother while he went to school and have his brother and brothers classmates tutor him. Their father manipulated him, making him feel like their dad would die if he left him. Bump stayed with his father and is now in prison.

My ex still does not realize what he has done to the kids. In his eyes, he was the perfect parent, so it must have been me who screwed them up.
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DragonLair Farm and Kennel in Central Maine with Nubians, Lamanchas and Oberhasli. Of course, combinations of 2 or more breeds happens also.
imalilbirdie
Herdmasters
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*****
Posts: 19370


Texas


« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2014, 07:04:19 AM »

Ok Deb...I know the past was horrific, and totally dysfunctional...but Deb, this is a grown man, he is now responsible for his "own" actions...what happened in the past contributed to his behavior, but, he's the one that's got to deal with his choices.  We've all made huge mistakes in our lives, some worse than others, but we've managed to "grow up" and "move forward" without making those mistakes again....

so stop blaming Yourself and his father (even though he's a horses bum)..let your son live his chosen life...let him suffer his own consequences may they be good or bad.  If you want him out of your house, then do it...don't feel guilty for it, don't be angry about it...it's your house, it's your rules...in jail/prison they have structured lives...same as they do in the military...these structured lives tell them when they sleep, when they eat, when they have free time, when they will work, when they will shower and so forth...the reason your Son can't continue living a normal type life is because it's not structured outside the jail walls...yes, he does need help, seriously bad...But remember, what he does is not your fault, it's not any one's fault...it's his own fault as he's a man now, not a child, and he knows right from wrong...even if the apple didn't fall far from the tree...he has made his decisions.
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~ Birdie ~
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