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Topic: Dogs and raw meat?--Dragon? Creekmom?  (Read 3961 times)
imalilbirdie
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« on: November 17, 2014, 05:57:23 AM »

For those of you who feed raw meats to your dogs...

Have you ever had them throw it up shortly after feeding it to them?
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dragonlair
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« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2014, 04:53:18 PM »

The only time mine have done that was when they swallowed it too quickly and in too big of a chunk. (greedy piglets!)
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DragonLair Farm and Kennel in Central Maine with Nubians, Lamanchas and Oberhasli. Of course, combinations of 2 or more breeds happens also.
imalilbirdie
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« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2014, 05:55:27 PM »

Thanks Dragon...

Well that could be the issue then, the chunks he gets are about 1/2" square they would fit in a teaspoon, maybe I need them smaller than that?...I have been trying to take Sammy into a raw meat diet, as suggested by both you and Creekmom...however I am mixing it with his normal dog food as well....I thought I was cutting it up in tiny enough pieces, and mixing it into his dog food, but every time I do it, Sammy throws up and continues to do so until he is throwing up white foaming looking stuff.  So, I'm wondered if he could be having a reaction to the raw meat, and that's why I asked.

Shane got a deer over the weekend and we processed it up...the tiny pieces that we took off the deer I saved for the dogs...when I fed it to them, Sammy threw it up within 15 minutes of finishing his meal.  That was good fresh meat straight off the deer.  I also had fresh chicken scraps and some fresh beef scraps the first time when I fed him the raw meats mixed with his dog food and he threw that up too.

Should I possibly not try to feed him raw meats? 
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dragonlair
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« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2014, 10:39:05 AM »

Maybe start him on a tiny amount of the raw mixed with the kibble to see if he will tolerate it. Or better yet, feed a very small amount out of your hand and see if he reacts to it. Like with any change, their stomach needs to adapt to the new food, maybe his system is more sensitive to change?

 If he continues to throw up, then try cooking it and mixing it and the juices in with the kibble. You can boil it so it makes it's own gravy and you don't lose a lot of nutrients.
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DragonLair Farm and Kennel in Central Maine with Nubians, Lamanchas and Oberhasli. Of course, combinations of 2 or more breeds happens also.
imalilbirdie
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« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2014, 10:44:05 AM »

You're right Dragon...I had been giving him small amounts to make sure the change went smoothly...

I did this morning, cook his raw meats...he had chicken, ham (fresh smoke wild hog ham), and deer meat...I boiled it.  I had already cut it up in tiny pieces prior to boiling.  I used some of the broth over his kibble food first...let that cool and the meat cool out on another dish...after it cooled I mixed it all together and he ate almost his entire breakfast this morning and he hasn't thrown it up.

Maybe I should continue to boil his meats?  Huh?

Today he and Sasha were heart wormed and flea treatment put on...they got brushed and nails clipped prior to worming and flea treatment.

I swear I get enough hair off the two of them to coat another very large dog!!! hahaha.  Grin
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creekmom
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« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2014, 08:09:22 AM »

Mine will do that occasionally when they have eaten it too fast.  There is a website that really helped me when I first started them on the raw diet.  I have been doing it almost 10 months now and I can't tell you the difference in my dogs.  I wish I would have taken pictures.  Anyway, here is the website.  preymodelraw.com  

And that brushing, I know what you mean.  I get enough hair to completely make another dog I think. 

« Last Edit: November 22, 2014, 08:11:19 AM by creekmom » Logged

Elizabeth
imalilbirdie
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« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2014, 08:21:50 AM »

Wow, that site has tons of information....going "cold turkey"...I can't believe that's what they want you to do, but I understand why they say that...I tried hand feeding raw meats, and Sam threw it back up not more than 5 minutes of eating it.  I thought I was cutting it up small enough, but maybe I wasn't.

I have to find a raw meat provider around here...what I get right now are the scraps from Deer and Hog hunters (which we hunt for both ourselves) but when the Deer season ends that will come to a halt.  Hog is open season year round.  We have a couple of slaughter houses several miles from here, but it's a first come first serve thing...typically I make one trip a week to town but over to the slaughter houses, I get over there maybe once a month.

I'll just have to see what I can do about this.  I'm still boiling his meats, and so far so good, he's not throwing it up and is eating better.

thanks for your information and the website link...that's deeply appreciated.
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imalilbirdie
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« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2014, 06:30:57 PM »

Hey Creekmom...

What caused you to think of food allergies for your dogs ear issues? 

My curiosity is wondering, how food allergies can affect the ears that way.

I know food allergies can cause seizures and skin issues, all the way to stomach upset and digestive inflammation, but how did the food allergies affect the ears.

I think that's what you typed into your last thread...with the med's that worked on your dogs ears.

I thought I might rule that out with Sam if this "raw meat" diet is affective with him.
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creekmom
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« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2014, 09:31:27 PM »

Well, when Sally started having chronic ear infections, I did a search on causes of chronic ear infections in dogs and found lots of information about how food allergies affect the ears as well. 

I was very skeptical of switching to a raw diet, especially feeding chicken leg quarters whole. To be quite honest I still worry a little about the bones, but the people who have been feeding this way for years and years say it is okay.  Definitely never ever feed cooked bones, but raw ones. 

I am really glad I did make the switch.  The dogs love it.  It did take me a while to get the hang of it. 
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Elizabeth
dragonlair
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« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2014, 09:39:51 PM »

Not sure why food allergies can cause ear infections, but they do. Ear infections, drippy eyes,  compulsive foot licking and scratching of the mouth and face. It has to do with the bodies immune reaction, but I have forgotten the exact cause. My Setter gets all the above when she gets fed kibble with corn, soy and wheat. For her, raw works awesomely. Even if I cook it, the plain meat, goat milk products, fruit, eggs and veggies work great.

One of the local mushers was getting ground beef for the dogs and is now able to start getting it again. There had been a several month "dry period". WooHoo! I trade her goat milk for meat. Four days ago one of the pointer cross sled dogs became a first time mother at the ripe old age of 10. Totally unexpected, as she had not gotten pregnant on other attempts when she was younger. She gets milk and meat along with her kibble and the pups will get milk starting when they are 3 weeks old.
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DragonLair Farm and Kennel in Central Maine with Nubians, Lamanchas and Oberhasli. Of course, combinations of 2 or more breeds happens also.
imalilbirdie
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« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2014, 05:47:01 AM »

this is very interesting. I have put the dogs on a Salmon/Sweet Potato kibble...it's much higher in protein than our other dog food was...how long I'll keep them on that, determines how long Sammy will continue to eat it  Roll Eyes  Darn dog is so picky that he'd just as soon starve himself to death as to eat a plain kibble food.  tongue

I too am leery of feeding bones (raw or cooked)...years ago, when I was still living at home with my parents...we slaughtered a steer...my Daddy was like the T.V. show Alaska the Last Frontier...never wasted a thing from the animals we lived off of.  Well my Mom took some rib bones that had meat on them out to our dogs (they were raw--uncooked and fresh slaughter), and divided them up with all the dogs, so that each dog got at least one rib bone each...(remember my daddy had shelties and BC's--each having their own jobs...shelties worked the sheep, and the BC's worked the cattle)...well one of the Shelties (Joshua Patrick was his name) got so compacted with that bone, that he almost died...my Daddy rushed him to the Vet and the Vet saved his life...but I tell ya, since that day...I don't give my dogs bones unless it's the dental bones that they chew on for weeks and weeks.  I don't know that I'd be able to give them the bones.  I would just die if something happened to one of them.

I noticed that the link spoke of "chicken is cheap"...I wonder if most the folks who own the dogs that are in that forum are city people purchasing meats from the grocery store for their dogs raw meat diets?  I know the cost of meats in the store down here is not cheap, not cheap at all...hamburger is like almost 7.00 or more a pound...I don't know that I could afford this diet (or a full raw meat diet) at store costs.  As long as I can get the deer meats, and wild hog meats from a fresh kill, then I'm all good, but if I have to do the first come first serve thing at the slaughter houses, I doubt I would fair well there, as farmers tend to take their calves and livestock to the markets/slaughter houses once a month or so, and they tend to get the biggest portions if not all of the scraps.  Plus those slaughter houses are a good distance from me...one maybe 15 to 20 miles away and I'm not sure how far the other one is...it's probably about 20 to 25 miles away.

Dragon, that link that Creekmom posted said not to mix the raw meats with the kibbles...I do this all the time...do you think that maybe, just maybe that's why Sam is throwing it up?  Since I've been cooking it, Sammy isn't throwing it up...but again I am mixing it with his kibble.  His kibble has the glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM in it...as well as Sammy gets extra Glucosamine supplements and the other binding stuff called Live Vantage Canine Supplement.  I have to keep his Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM levels very high.  That's why I truly don't want to remove the kibble, but maybe he's not getting enough in the kibble to really say he's getting a lot of good from it, but it makes me sure feel better knowing he's getting extra, even if he's not..hahahaha. 

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creekmom
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« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2014, 09:14:49 AM »

I'm not sure on this but I do believe reading somewhere that there are some bones that are not supposed to be edible and I think that the ribs fall into that.  I know that the chicken bones are softer, more pliable and able to be chewed up.  It does still make me nervous I have to tell you.  Most of the meats that I give them are a mixture of the muscle meat, organs, bones all ground up.  The supplier I use is texastripe.com.  They make deliveries in Texas and Roger, the owner, may know someone in your area since you aren't that far from Texas.  I couldn't afford to buy from the grocery store and I think that most people on that forum who do totally raw are part of a co-op that buys in bulk for the whole group.  I used to be part of one until I found Texas Tripe.

Seems like everyone has a different opinion on most things no matter what it is.  I think they say on Prey Model Raw that if you feed both kibble and raw it can mess with the dog's digestion, since the one of the two, either the kibble or the raw is digested slowly.  I can't remember which.  There are people that do both and the dog does just fine.  Guess it depends on the individual dog.  I do raw exclusively so don't have any experience with that. 
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Elizabeth
imalilbirdie
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« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2014, 09:21:39 AM »

Yes, I did read that in PMR, that feeding the combination of raw with kibble messes with the digestion.  I tend to agree since Sammy did get sick not more than 15 minutes after eating his food.  Again, I was with the line of thinking that I needed to switch him over slowly and not shock his system...PMR suggests fasting for a single day, and doing an immediate change over.

There are many different points of view in that forum and that's really good, because...as it is here in GB...what works for one may not work for every one or every dog.  So I'm thankful that they are giving several points of view/experience with it.

I wonder if the boiling of the meat, and mixing it with the kibble is different than feeding the raw with the kibble?  Sammy hasn't gotten sick at all since I started cooking that meat prior to feeding it to him.

I will check out that place you suggested and see if I can find a distributor closer to us.  Shipping costs are so high that you might be able to afford the raw meats, but the shipping will kill ya!!  Embarrassed Sad
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creekmom
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« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2014, 03:20:34 PM »

To me it seems if what you are doing is working and Sammy is happy and feeling good, then I would keep on doing what you are doing. 
 
Yes, you're right.  No way to afford the shipping.  There would have to be a meat distributor close by you.  I have to drive 60 miles round trip to pick mine up so I order for 2 months at a time. 

Also, I love the way your dad lived.  Not too many people like him around anymore who have the know how to live in that way and make it work.  So much respect for that way of doing things.  I know you miss him dearly.  On a happier note, he raised a wonderful daughter!
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Elizabeth
imalilbirdie
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« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2014, 05:46:17 AM »

Awww..thanks Liz...that was so sweet of you to say.  (((Hugs))).  I do miss my Dad and the inventions he would create and come up with to get a job done.  Otto on Alaska the Last Frontier...reminds me so much of my Dad...once when we were kids, I wanted a pony of my own...Daddy would say..."when you get bigger!"  Well ya know all the other kids had those rocking horses on springs...well not us...we couldn't afford such things as that...I was eyeing one in the department store...really wanting it...I didn't tell Daddy I wanted it...but I looked at it and touched it but never got on it.  Well, the next day, Daddy drug out a lot of scrap wood and before I new it, I had a saw horse pony, built special for me!!!  He put a wooden head on it, made a binder twine saddle and stirrups, and put binder twine on for a bridle, and away I went, pretending me and my pony were traveling the world over and back again. 

Yep, I do have a lot of fond memories of my Daddy for sure.

But ya know, I think you're right Liz...right now, I'm happy with boiling Sammy's meats...he is eating good right now and is eating more...Sasha is doing really good on either one the dog foods that we use...She's fat as mud on a cup and a half of kibble...so if this way ever stops working, I'll be willing to try that raw meat diet again, only doing it the way PMR suggests to try it.  See if that's what my problem might of been...not fasting or mixing the two together.  I think that's where the goof up came in.
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