HomeHelpLoginRegister

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
June 27, 2017, 05:36:03 PM

Login with username, password and session length
Search

News
hihandwcm

Stats
19273 Posts in 1376 Topics by 718 Members
Latest Member: Mwtink
+  Welcome to Goat Beat!
|-+  Goat Cafe; Just the Facts
| |-+  Dairy Goats (Moderators: imalilbirdie, pearplum, nancy d, dragonlair, sweetgoats)
| | |-+  MDGA herd names v.s. farm names and tattoos, I am confused
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] Print
Topic: MDGA herd names v.s. farm names and tattoos, I am confused  (Read 600 times)
Goshen goaties
Bottle Babies
*
Posts: 32



« on: November 11, 2016, 09:03:41 AM »

We are trying to register with the MDGA and I am a little confused.  We are now the proud owners of 3 darling mini lamanchas, who are all registered with the MDGA.  They already have names (can you change their name?), and came with papers witch I need to transfer into my name.  So do the original stock just keep all their farm of origin stuff and it is just their offspring that you put all your numbers and stuff on?    With herd names I notice that they have a name, and then the tattoo has just a few letters, do those have to match letter wise?  I notice that the letter "g" is not used in tattoos, so for example: (herd name) Goats of Goshen, GOG probably won't fly in the tattoo department.  Are herd names different from the farm name?  I am not quite sure what to think, I guess worst case scenario I could call the MDGA.  The places I got the goats from just told me to send in the papers to transfer the goats into my name, but it seems like I need to put a little more thought into it for the future of our herd.  I actually havnt settled on a farm name or herd name, but we live in this cute little area called Goshen and I would really like the names to go with that.  I am trying to start a soap making endeavor and so far I have a a slogan/Name "Goshen Goat Soap Co. from the land of milk and honey.". Do you guys have any great thoughts on that?  I would appreciate some input, thanks.
Logged
dragonlair
Herdmaster
Goat Genius
*****
Posts: 9247



« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2016, 11:42:58 AM »

If you bought them already registered or with an application with all the info (herd name, tatts etc) already on the papers/application- it all stays the same, you do not change that at all. The herd name is registered to a specific farm. The tatts are also registered to that farm, with the other tatt that represents the year born and birth order for that year. You will need to apply for both if you want to registered the offspring of your girls.

Herd tatts represent the farm where the animal was born. Unless your girls were born on your farm, the tatts will be the same as the breeders herd. Herd name on the papers is the herd name of the person who bred the mother of the animal being registered. Herd Tatts and herd names are permanent records of that specific animal. In fact, the tatts can be substituted for scrapies tags.

Herd names are names you send in to request to represent your farm. They can be anything, either a full name or letters. My Farm is DragonLair Farm and Kennel. My Tatt letters for both ADGA and MDGA are DLF2. I chose DLF for a herd name because you are limited to a certain amount of letters for a name, so I want a short herd name to allow me lots of name choices. My original herd name was DragonLair Farm, which didn't leave many spaces for names, so I changed it to DLF when I changed breeds and started over again. You don't have to, most don't, but I did to shorten the name.

When you send in the papers on goats already registered or with an application, the only thing you ad is your name, address and member ID# (if they ask for it). None of your herd names or tatt info is on the reg papers of animals you did not breed or own at time of kidding.

You can have your farm name for your herd name and chose something different for your tatt. It can be anything you want as long as no one else has it. You can use your name initials, your kids initials, anything, up to 4 letters/numbers.
Logged

DragonLair Farm and Kennel in Central Maine with Nubians, Lamanchas and Oberhasli. Of course, combinations of 2 or more breeds happens also.
imalilbirdie
Herdmasters
Goat Genius
*****
Posts: 19029


Texas


« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2016, 05:00:17 AM »

When I bought BoCephus, he was already registered with a name.  I wanted to change that name.  When I asked the Registrar about it, she told me that I had to ask the seller if they cared if I changed the name or not, and as long as BoCephus had not sired any kids, I could indeed change his name.  So hence, we asked the sellers and they were good with it, and he hadn't sired any kids, so hence, we changed his name.

Farm names are asked for through the scrapie tag (AG Dept).  We requested our farm name and they told us our first selection was already taken, so we added another letter to it and we got it.  Our Farm initials were CHRG.  I don't understand why yours isn't using the "G".  We didn't have any issue with using the letter "G". 

We used the sires name has the name on the Registration.  Such as Roady's Bourbon, and Roady's Brandy, Timmy's Blazen Lil' Britches, Timmy's Blazen Thunder, Bo-Did-He, and so forth.  I never gave my goats "Number" names.  I had purchased several goats that were given "Numbers" for names, so we just gave them nicknames.  When it came to a kid born on our farm...the CHRG Roady's Bourbon, CHRG Timmy's Blazen Lil' Britches, and CHRG Bo-Did-He, were declared as being born on our farm by our farm initials. 

That is an adorable soap company slogan.  I would definitely keep that.  Your Farm name I would keep as Goshen Goats.  Or Goshen Dairy.  But I definitely wouldn't change that slogan for love nor money.  Your tattoo initials could be SGG, if you can't get GGS.  You want it as short as possible, because tattoo'ing is no fun, and the less you have to change letters in the tattoo tool the better.  That ink stains every thing it touches.  Those tattoo' prongs has to go all the way through their ears, and both ears have to be done.  I didn't do it though.  I assigned each goat a tattoo number, but I didn't put it in their ears.  Their registration showed that number.  90% of the time the tattoo closes over any way.  So why bother putting those animals through that pain, and me through the suffering of inflicting needless pain, so I didn't do it.
Logged

~ Birdie ~
dragonlair
Herdmaster
Goat Genius
*****
Posts: 9247



« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2016, 09:43:26 AM »

Certain letters are not used to represent the year part of the tattoo. Letters that look similar to numbers or other letters are not used. G can look like an o or a 0, I looks like a 1. They can be used for your herd tatt.

If the correct amount of green ink is used and gotten deep into the holes, the tattoo is permanent. Black and white ink are not great about staying visible. I would love to try getting purple ink, that would look awesome! LaManchas are tattoo'd on their tails. I go right up the middle, or you can tattoo them on that flap of skin, the tail web, at the base of the tail, on either side.

The government is getting serious about scrapie and will demand either ear tags, microchips or tattoos on all breedable goats and sheep. They can prohibit selling the animals if they get really serious about it, and even levy a fine on the owner. Every breedable goat kid on my farm is being tattoo'd this season because I'm not taking any chances. I have a small tatt "gun" that is nearly painless and doesn't require the tattoo pliers or the numbers and letters, you do it free hand.

I refuse to put ear tags in my goats ears, would rather do the tattoo any day than take the chance of shredding their ears.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2016, 09:53:34 AM by dragonlair » Logged

DragonLair Farm and Kennel in Central Maine with Nubians, Lamanchas and Oberhasli. Of course, combinations of 2 or more breeds happens also.
imalilbirdie
Herdmasters
Goat Genius
*****
Posts: 19029


Texas


« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2016, 05:07:47 AM »

I prefer the microchipping over tattoo'ing any day of the week...more costly yes, but more humane and more permanent.  We had really good tattoo instruments.  Still have them out in the shop, with all the letters and numbers.  We only used the green ink.  Vet helped us on our first ones, and even with her implementation, the tattoo's faded beyond readability.  Yes, I know all about the laws and the fines.  I still don't do it.  Each one is assigned a tattoo number, each one is assigned a scrapie tag, but unless they leave your farm, that's not needed.  I send each one home with a scrapie tag if they leave my farm, and if the buyer so chooses to put it in, then they can do it when they get home.  There are ways around all that stuff.  Sale barns is where it's mostly inforced.  They charge you 5.00 per animal for the yellow tags that are registered with the government.  I've never been fined because of the tags not being there.  Never been fined due to the tattoo that's not visible either.  Each animal going across state lines requires a health certificate.  That I do get.  It's 10.00 per animal.  I don't mind doing that because that gives my buyers a sense of comfort knowing the animal has been seen by a Vet and examined, and found healthy. 
Logged

~ Birdie ~
Goshen goaties
Bottle Babies
*
Posts: 32



« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2016, 09:51:44 AM »

Ahh, that makes a lot of things more clear to me, thanks for the input!  I just assumed you couldn't use the certain letters in the tattoo for your herd name part because they didn't use them for the year parts of the tattoo. 
      We have only showed market wethers at 4h before, and I knew they had a scrapie tag, but they came with it, and I didn't really understand that it was linked back to the government, that's crazy.  The government just loves to stick their nose in everything, drives me nuts.  I shouldn't be surprised.
       So do you use the same herd name for every herd on your farm, or do you come up with different ones for each breed?  I keep my meat goats separate from my dairy so I don't know if that would be two different herds, or if they are one because they are both on our place. 
       I am feeling a little sad for kid goats, they get so many painful experiences just for the sake of safety in confinement and for regulating them... dissbudding, tattooing,  banding,  it is so good of them to love us anyway Smiley
       I am excited about the soap business and getting more serious about the goat aspect of our lives.  My kids are all in school now, and I really want to stay home instead of going out and getting a job.  Plus, there is a void for me with my children growing up,  goats aren't even close to the same, but they are making this transition stage of life a lot easier for me.... and they won't go to school, leaving me alone all day  Wink.   
     I'm glad someone thinks the soap name is good, thanks imalilbirdie.  My husband doesn't quite like it yet, but I guess he doesn't get a say, because he always tells me "they're your goats" when he doesn't want to be involved with them lol.  He gets sucked in anyway though, the goats are just too fun to ignore. Grin
       
Logged
Julie H
Goat Genius
*****
Posts: 1459


Missouri


« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2016, 01:59:22 PM »

The "eradicate scrapie program" for sheep & goats is a government program , yes, but one that needs to be done to track where scrapie is present on farms.  I no longer tag my kids.  When I sell I give the buyer the option of tagging them here or letting them do it when they sell them off their farm.  Since most of my buyers for doelings are buying for breeding stock they opt to not have tags ( since we know how hard it is to keep them intact).  Boys get tagged upon leaving our place because the majority go to the sale barn.

I wouldn't call it an intrusion as far as our government goes it is pretty mild and they send you tags with your assigned farm # for free as well as a tagger.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2016, 02:01:00 PM by Julie H » Logged
Goshen goaties
Bottle Babies
*
Posts: 32



« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2016, 11:53:50 PM »

Oh, so scrapie is a disease?  I didn't know that, I guess google, here I come.  That sounds like a good 4-h demonstration to give Grin. Thanks for the input!
Logged
imalilbirdie
Herdmasters
Goat Genius
*****
Posts: 19029


Texas


« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2016, 05:06:15 AM »

yes, Scrapies is a disease.  Just like Black leg in cattle, just like Johne's disease in most all livestock animals...both deadly, both require animals being put down, both require a farm quarantine.  A farm reported to have Johne's Disease, they will destroy that animal, along with all the animals that were with that animal, dig a huge hole in the ground, put all dead animals in it, burn them and then cover them up.  Then they quarantine that farm for life, and no livestock animals will be allowed on that farm for 50 yrs.  Why do I know this, you ask?  It happened to our neighbor over in Missouri.  Indeed both of those are deadly to all animals who contract them.  However, you don't see the government tagging animals to show those two deadly diseases.  Black leg is a yearly shot that all cows/heifers has to have according to our government.  The heifers are given their first shot before they come of breeding age, typically close to 2 yrs old.  All female cattle require a yearly booster of that shot.  There is nothing to prevent Johne's disease.  A disease far more deadly and contagious than scrapies ever thought of being.

I bucked that tagging stuff for a long long time, and I still buck it today.  Putting tags in the tail webs of earless goats, is deplorable.  Putting tags in ears of goats, that will inevitably be torn out/off while grazing or foraging or when they get their heads caught in something, is again, nothing I like to see happen to an innocent animal.  This tattoo'ing stuff...again I bucked it hard.  Did you know that if they enforced this the way the government wanted to enforce it, even your chickens would be tatttoo'd?  Your dogs, your cats, every single animal on your farm would be tattoo'd.  Now go imagine to yourself, how in the world are you going to tattoo' those animals?  Tattoo'ing is painful, and I absolutely refuse to inflict needless pain on my animals.  We tattoo'd one year.  By the middle of that same year, those tattoo's were unreadable, and according to our Vet, they had to be done again, so she did them.  And I watched my poor babies go through that pain twice.  Not any more my friends...NOT ANY MORE!  No tags will go in my goats ears or tail webs, no tattoo needles will pierce their tiny wee little ears.  Government come and get me....that's all I can say.  Then I'll call my friends with the Animal Welfare and let them via my case. 

The government needs to back out of this, and leave us be.  Govern the diseases most certainly, like they do the Black Leg or the Johne's disease, or even Blue Tongue in the Wild Life....but don't make us inflict needless pain.

No Goshen, you don't need two different farm names for two different breeds of animals.  You can and really should use the same farm name.  Your farm name initials would be GGS.  Keep it as short as possible.  Our farm name was Chigger Ridge Farms....hence the CRF was already taken so we had to go with CHRG...when you apply for your farm name, you will need to submit 5 different requests for that name...such as GGS, GGSC, GGF, GGFC...standing for Goshen Goats Soaps, Goshen Goat Soap Company, Goshen Goat Farm, and Goshen Goat Farm Company.  But you'll need to give them 5 different requests for farm name in case the ones you've chosen are taken.  So start with your most well liked names and go down from them.

Your farm name will identify you not just to the government but also to your buyers as that farm name will go on your registration papers of your babies born on your farm.  That identifies you.  So if you're doing two separate breeds, stay with the same farm name...that way you're easier to identify with.  Took me 5 yrs to get my name out there and folks coming from out of state and across our home state to buy from me.  Once your name gets out there, the word will spread fast.  Offer your buyers something they can't get from any other farm, and you've got it made. Smiley
Logged

~ Birdie ~
dragonlair
Herdmaster
Goat Genius
*****
Posts: 9247



« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2016, 03:58:06 PM »

Scrapie is the sheep/goat version of Mad Cow disease. Not something I want to play around with. 100% fatal to animals AND humans. Not a pleasant way to die, either. Prion diseases are horrible. Wanting to fully eradicate this disease from the US is a great idea.

Using the tatt "gun" is no more painful for an animal than it is for a human. I have tattoos and they were not painful at all. To tatt an animal takes maybe 5 minutes at the most. Mine took an hour. The Scrapies thing is only for goats and sheep.

And they are going to be enforcing the scrapies thing soon. It was voluntary to begin with, soon it will be made fully compliant to eradicate this disease. In most states Animal Welfare departments are on board with the scrapies eradication program. Ever see an animal die from a Prion disease? To allow it to continue to spread is far crueler than a 5 minute tattoo.

No, 1 herd name and tatt is fine for the entire herd, you don't have to separate it by breed. When I had Nigerians, standard dairy and Boers goats, my herd name and tatt was the same for all, even though they were registered with 4 separate registries. Made it so much easier thatw ay.
Logged

DragonLair Farm and Kennel in Central Maine with Nubians, Lamanchas and Oberhasli. Of course, combinations of 2 or more breeds happens also.
imalilbirdie
Herdmasters
Goat Genius
*****
Posts: 19029


Texas


« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2016, 05:22:32 AM »

I understand where you're coming from Deb.  I also understand it's a deadly disease.  However, they require no shots for it, like they do Black Leg in Cattle.  They require no types of medications to prevent it.  So my point is, why  the tags/tattoo's, when registration tells where the goat came from?  Unregistered herds could easily be set up for a registration...under the farm name or owners name.  And yes, Tattoo's do hurt (I have one--and yeppers it hurt like the dickens--they tell me it's because I got it in a very tender spot--go figure), all our babies cried, and screamed when we did them.  Our grand daughters cried with their ears being pierced as well.  All I'm saying is, infliction of needless pain is undesirable for me to do to my goats.  Especially the no eared goats.  I'm all for micro chipping.  Several of my goats were micro chipped when I bought them.  My dogs are all micro chipped.  Much more humane way of doing things, and it's permanent, it doesn't get ripped out, or closed over.
Logged

~ Birdie ~
Goshen goaties
Bottle Babies
*
Posts: 32



« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2016, 06:59:55 PM »

Thank you all for the input.  Out of curiosity, how do you get the microchips or the info onto them?  Is that also through the ag department?
Logged
imalilbirdie
Herdmasters
Goat Genius
*****
Posts: 19029


Texas


« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2016, 05:14:14 AM »

https://www.jefferspet.com/products/homeagain

now you see that the micro chipper and chips are pretty cheap...however, you do need to register that micro chip.  Roady (my avatar picture) was micro chipped when I got him, and so was Bocephus (our SA Boer buck).  They were already registered micro chips, so I only had to pay the transfer fees into my name.  All my dogs are micro chipped.  It only costed me 9.00 per dog at the vets office to have them micro chipped, but when I registered the chip, that's where it cost me.  Samson and Sasha are registered chips with Petlink.  Those were only 12.00 to register the chips.  Brandy Wine was done by a different Vet and her chip costed me 10.00, plus the registration of the chip was 36.00 through AKC Reunite. 

So it all depends on who you have that is registering the chip.

Now, the thing with the micro chip injectors and the chips themselves is that the one listed above may not be strong enough to be used on livestock animals.  You'd need to ask that.  So I would telephone Jeffers and speak with them about that chipper, before I ordered it.

I found this link below, however, my slow, creepy crawly, snail paced internet this morning, it didn't load completely.  Drats on Hughesnet!!! But this might help you research it a little more.  It does say "Mini or Standard Size"...Now if the mini chip will work (which may be what Jeffers has), that's what you want to use.  The standard size may be very large, and you don't want that in a goat.  But you don't want that insert needle to break when it goes into the tough skin of a goat...their skin is way tougher than a dogs skin.  But if you can get buy with the smaller one, I highly suggest it.  I had Samson and Brandy done as puppies, and they didn't hardly flinch when the vet put it in, but Sasha was a 2 yr old when I had her done and she yipped pretty good.  So it's not like it doesn't hurt a little.  Our goats didn't flinch when it when it.  It goes in under the skin.  The chip will float around under the skin as time goes on.  It will not stay in the same place that it was injected into.  Which is ok, hasn't hurt any one of mine yet.

https://www.microchipidsystems.com/your-work/livestock/

Logged

~ Birdie ~
Pages: [1] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.20 :: SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines
Amber design by Bloc | XHTML | CSS
candlewick