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Topic: chronic impacted cud  (Read 517 times)
creekmom
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Posts: 1070


South Central Texas


« on: November 27, 2018, 06:39:38 PM »

One of my 5 year old Nigerian does started having this problem back in September.  She had a cud stuck in her lower right jaw and we dug it out for her.  She since then has had it stuck at least 10 times.  This week it has been everyday since last Thursday.  It doesn't look like a tooth is messed up as best I can tell.  There is no swelling.  No fever. Once we get the cud out (once a day) she resumes eating like normal.  I tried letting it go for a day and see if she could get it out herself but she never was able to. 

I've never dealt with this before so not sure what else to do for her.  Thinking I may have to go see the vet. 

She has free choice coastal hay and browse.  No one else in the herd is having any issues (knock on wood).  Let me know if you need any more info.  Any thoughts?  Thanks!


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Elizabeth
imalilbirdie
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Posts: 19522


Texas


« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2018, 05:28:01 AM »

I have never heard about it either.  So, I did a little research and found that several different Bovine Sites have spoken about it, as well a Merck Vet Manual spoke about it in Bovines.  Both related it to a bad tooth that the cud was sticking to.  You say your girl doesn't have a bad tooth.  This is strange.  All those Bovine sites said that once the tooth was removed, it never happened again.  It might take a Vet to check that tooth down under the gum line.  I have never had this happen in all my years of farming to neither the Bovine or the Caprine.  This will be interesting to see the outcome of this.  I would think that if it's a bad tooth some sort of pain would be there, some sort of infection would appear.  You don't have that issue.  Which makes this all the more puzzling.
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~ Birdie ~
creekmom
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Posts: 1070


South Central Texas


« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2018, 11:27:44 AM »

Yeah, I'm kinda thinking a bad tooth as well.  I just can't see it well enough.  She already has it stuck again this morning.  I have an appointment with the vet today at 1:45.  I'll let you know. 
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Elizabeth
creekmom
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Posts: 1070


South Central Texas


« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2018, 02:52:53 PM »

Just made it home.  The vet said they have never heard of anything like this in a goat.  She already had a cud stuck after we had cleaned it out totally last night.  They pulled it out and said her teeth look just fine.  No infection or swelling or anything that looks abnormal.  They suggested me taking her to Texas A & M, but I'm not so sure I'm going to be able to do that. 

They did suggest giving her a hay replacer pellet.  Since that doesn't have any strands of fiber, then maybe that would help.  I got her started on an alfalfa/timothy pellet now.  She told me to give her 20 cc of penicillin for a week.  I'll have to look that dose up.  She may be right but that seems like a lot.  She weighs about 60 to 65 pounds. 

I had started her on Biomycin last night just in case and gave her a dose of Banamine.  I figured she is really sore with all that we have had to do holding her mouth open and all.

I'll keep you posted on how this goes with her. 
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Elizabeth
imalilbirdie
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Texas


« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2018, 07:06:33 AM »

My question is "why the antibiotic?"  If there is no infection, no elevated body temp, and no signs of opened wounds, why give antibiotic when it's not really needed?  That would indeed lower her immune system and cause something else to sneak in on her.  I think, if I were to agree and give the antibiotic, I think I'd do the penicillin for sure, but maybe just 10 cc's.  I know 20 sounds high, but it wouldn't be high if she were indeed infected with something.  Penicillin is to fight bacteria, whereas the Biomycin will help with respiratory infections.  I do agree with the pelleted hay.  Or maybe the hydration hay that they sell at TSC...now it's pricey but with bad teeth its what I gave Prince and he loved it.  Maybe she's just not producing enough saliva.  Maybe the hydration hay, since it's soaked in water to rehydrate it, may help with that.  Just grabbing at straws here, hoping something makes sense.
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~ Birdie ~
creekmom
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Posts: 1070


South Central Texas


« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2019, 02:27:48 PM »

I sought out another vet's opinion.  He said they call it "chipmunking".  He said it can come on for no reason and no explanation.  It can come and go. They see it sometimes in horses.  She did it off and on for about 3 months and then every day for three weeks around Thanksgiving, we were having to help her out every day.  


For the past few weeks, knock on wood, she hasn't had any problem with her cud getting stuck.  Hopefully it will stay this way.  I didn't change anything with her.  Leave it to one of my goats to do something strange.  Wink
« Last Edit: January 27, 2019, 02:29:40 PM by creekmom » Logged

Elizabeth
imalilbirdie
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Texas


« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2019, 05:27:33 AM »

Ya know Elizabeth, this is something that a lot of goat owners have no clue about, including myself.  Goats have always been good at stumping their owners, just about the time we think we have it figured out, they show us just how little we do know.  If you can get the information put together, I will add this to our health and information pages.

I wonder if you soaked some beet pulp, and fed that, if that would help?  I'm wondering if she's just not producing enough saliva?  Huh?
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~ Birdie ~
creekmom
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Posts: 1070


South Central Texas


« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2019, 10:27:01 AM »

If she starts doing it again I'll definitely try the soaked beet pulp.  It's the strangest thing.  When you get the cud out it was always a perfectly formed cud.  I would always let her swallow it back down because I knew she needed the bacteria and all from it to keep her rumen functioning properly.  I am so glad it has subsided for now. 

So very true!  Just when you think you have it all figured out, they throw you for a loop.  I swear they huddle together at night and try to think of ways to keep me jumping!
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Elizabeth
Julie H
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Posts: 1729


Missouri


« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2019, 01:17:18 PM »

How would a horse do that as they don't have cud?  I can see them having food stuck in their cheek if they have a tooth issue maybe???  Anyway I am glad your girl has been better.

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imalilbirdie
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Texas


« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2019, 05:28:20 AM »

I really think that soaking the beet pulp or feeding her small amounts of the hydration hay (I got Prince his at Tractor Supply--pricey as all get out, but worked great for him) "might" (note that word 'might'), be the key to helping her with this issue.  Of course I'm just guessing, so I could totally be off base.  I feel deep in my heart this is a saliva issue.
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~ Birdie ~
dragonlair
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« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2019, 03:47:20 PM »

One of my Nubians has started getting a cud stuck in her cheek a couple of weeks ago. I first saw it and freaked, I thought it was an abscess! I poked at it, saw it was a HUGE cud and pushed it out. Her teeth are fine. Then 2 more got an impacted cud. Only have had this once before, a couple of winters ago.

 What I have figured is it's cold so they are not drinking as much water as normal and they are eating extra hay (temps were frigid that week and we are headed right back to that arctic vortex again this week). The cud seemed drier than most, so I started feeding soaked beet pulp along with their alfalfa pellets for extra moisture in their cuds. It worked. Since I started with the soaked BP and alfalfa, no more stuck cuds.
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DragonLair Farm and Kennel in Central Maine with Nubians, Lamanchas and Oberhasli. Of course, combinations of 2 or more breeds happens also.
imalilbirdie
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Texas


« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2019, 05:32:35 AM »

Thanks Deb...that info is good to know...I just had a strong feeling deep in my gut it had to be because the cud was too dry.  Never in all my years of being around Livestock animals, have I ever seen this happen, and Lord knows, I've had a lot of cattle in my life time...we had sheep for a short while (they were just way too much work), goats all my life (brother was allergic to cow milk so we milked a dairy goat), a few Llama's and Alpaca's here and there (again short lived), I've just never seen this before.
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~ Birdie ~
creekmom
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Posts: 1070


South Central Texas


« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2019, 11:58:53 AM »

I picked up some of the beet pulp yesterday.  They were out of the hydration hay so will get some of that later.  How much beet pulp would y'all give to her a day?  She's about 60 pounds.  Not bred. 
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Elizabeth
imalilbirdie
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Posts: 19522


Texas


« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2019, 06:24:00 AM »

I gave our large breeds (when I tried it for 6 months) a cup each...I don't know if that was proper or not, but ours was a supplement, not a main course...you could try a 1/2 cup and see how that goes. 
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~ Birdie ~
dragonlair
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Posts: 9624



« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2019, 02:44:36 PM »

I give mine each a soup can of dry soaked with a soup can and a half of hot water. Let soak until water is mostly gone, or totally gone. It's  a trial and error thing. The shreds use much less soaking time, while the pellets take about 12 freakin' hours! Lol I've had the shreds all soaked and ready to feed in 15 minutes
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DragonLair Farm and Kennel in Central Maine with Nubians, Lamanchas and Oberhasli. Of course, combinations of 2 or more breeds happens also.
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