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Topic: CALLING DRAGONLAIR !!  (Read 601 times)
Julie H
Goat Genius
*****
Posts: 1994


Missouri


« on: September 18, 2020, 01:44:55 PM »

Was it you who uses a "dewormer cocktail" of sorts?

You put in a post what you used when you get a new goat in.  If it was you can you share what it is and what the dosage of each would be for a commercial type Boer goat?

thanks!
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dragonlair
Herdmaster
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Posts: 9851



« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2020, 06:36:49 PM »

Yup, it was me. I use 2 or 3 from different chemical families.



There are three families of drugs which are used to treat internal parasites in livestock:

1. Benzimidazoles - Fenbendazole, Albendazole, Oxybendazole, Thiabendazole
2. Nicotinics - Levamisole, Pyrantel, Moratel
3. Macrolytic Lactones - Ivermectin, Doramectin, Moxidectin

The Benzimidazoles (Safeguard, Panacur, Valbazen, Synanthic), also called "white dewormers" are broad spectrum and safe to use. They are effective against tapeworms. Albendazole (Valbazen) is effective against adult liver flukes, but should not be used in pregnant or lactating females.

Levamisole (Tramisol), also called a "clear dewormer" is broad spectrum and effective against arrested larvae. However, it has a narrower margin of safety in the injectable form.  Pyrantel (Strongid) is only effective against adult worms. Moratel (RumatelĀ®) is an oral feed additive and is only effective against adult worms.

The Macrolytic lactones or "avermectins" (Ivomec, Dectomax, Quest, Cydectin) are the newest family of drugs. They are broad spectrum and have a wide margin of safety. They are also effective against external (biting) parasites, including nose bots. Moxidectin is a persistent-activity dewormer that continues to kill worms after it is administered. In a sheep trial in Virginia, treatment with Moxidectin (Cydectin) at 8 week intervals was more effective than treatment with Ivermectin at 4 week intervals.

Ivomec, Valbazen, and Tramisol drench are approved for use in sheep. Only Fenbendazole, Valbazen and Rumatel are FDA-approved for use in goats. Use of any product which is inconsistent with its label constitutes "extra-label" drug use.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2020, 06:41:25 PM by dragonlair » Logged

DragonLair Farm and Kennel in Central Maine with Nubians, Lamanchas and Oberhasli. Of course, combinations of 2 or more breeds happens also.
dragonlair
Herdmaster
Goat Genius
*****
Posts: 9851



« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2020, 06:51:19 PM »

Go to the Caprine Health and information page just above this one. Scroll down to where it starts with the worms and medications. When do you the cocktail, you give the full dose for the weight of the goat for each medication. You can give it all at once (most effective) or several hours apart. Worms are getting so resistant to all medications that this is about the most efficient way to kill them. It's not an every month type of deal, it's usually done once when an animal comes to a new farm or for an animal that just can't seem to get cleared of worms. This is the only time I deworm without a fecal.
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DragonLair Farm and Kennel in Central Maine with Nubians, Lamanchas and Oberhasli. Of course, combinations of 2 or more breeds happens also.
Julie H
Goat Genius
*****
Posts: 1994


Missouri


« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2020, 12:46:15 PM »

Thanks Dragon.

I have been using Cydectin  exclusively and as limited as I can.  This year it just seems they need something different as I have had a few issues .  I purchased Prohibit, Ivermectin, Safeguard and Valbazen hoping to do a 3 way on all my goats now that they are close to breeding.

Do you think the Valbazen is a better choice over the Safeguard in that drug class?  Is it safe to hit my youngsters with a 3 way or safer to just give 1?

I will look at the health pages for doses.  Thanks.
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dragonlair
Herdmaster
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Posts: 9851



« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2020, 03:52:54 PM »

How young are the kids? I have 3 wayed kids 6 months and over, but haven't had to do it any younger.

Safeguard doesn't seem to work for much any more, so I would use Valbazen. That is the first dewormer I use on kids, so it is safe. However, it depends on what worms you are aiming for. Most of the "white" dewormers are not very effective for anything but tapes. If you are after Barberpole or worms like that, I would use the ivermectin for the kids and then re-evaluate in 2-3 weeks.
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DragonLair Farm and Kennel in Central Maine with Nubians, Lamanchas and Oberhasli. Of course, combinations of 2 or more breeds happens also.
Julie H
Goat Genius
*****
Posts: 1994


Missouri


« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2020, 12:42:41 PM »

Thanks.

I have some doelings I kept who are 6 +months old now  and the 2 youngest twins who were born 8 weeks ago.  I will do them all with Valbazen and reevaluate( they all look fantastic weight / coat wise).

It is more the does.  A few are just not rebounding like I think they should.  All of them still have a single kid so they could still be nursing, but I want to make sure I hit them good.  I will do the Prohibit, Valbazen, Ivomec trio on them.
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dragonlair
Herdmaster
Goat Genius
*****
Posts: 9851



« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2020, 10:24:13 PM »

A really great resource for worms issues and such is the University of Maryland small ruminant program. They have done a bunch of research on worm loads in goats. Another one is Wormx. It is based out of either New Zealand or Australia, I forgot which, but both of those places have way more knowledge about worms than they do in the US. They have allowed so much more $ for research in those countries, while in the US sheep and goats are put on the back burner.
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DragonLair Farm and Kennel in Central Maine with Nubians, Lamanchas and Oberhasli. Of course, combinations of 2 or more breeds happens also.
Julie H
Goat Genius
*****
Posts: 1994


Missouri


« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2020, 01:49:00 PM »

We got them done !!  What a marathon with doing 3 dewormers, trimming feet and then doing a copper bolus, but we got them all.  Glad to be done and I look forward to seeing the 3  I am concerned about hopefully rebounding. They don't look bad ( just lacking the bloom of the others)  2 are older  and 2 still have a doe nursing and they will be moved this week in preparation for putting the buck in.  That should help too.

I will look up that info.  Thanks Dragon.


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dragonlair
Herdmaster
Goat Genius
*****
Posts: 9851



« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2020, 02:07:49 AM »

Good job!!!!!!!!

I've got to get feet, copper bolusing and BO-SE done here soon. I've got several I need to get registered and clean and strip the stalls before winter hits. AGH!
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DragonLair Farm and Kennel in Central Maine with Nubians, Lamanchas and Oberhasli. Of course, combinations of 2 or more breeds happens also.
Julie H
Goat Genius
*****
Posts: 1994


Missouri


« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2020, 12:50:50 PM »

It is never ending isn't it  Smiley

Thankfully I am on schedule now to copper them right after kidding so it may be easier now.
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dragonlair
Herdmaster
Goat Genius
*****
Posts: 9851



« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2020, 09:15:19 PM »

I'm behind doing mine. I'll get the BO-SE and copper done at the same time.
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DragonLair Farm and Kennel in Central Maine with Nubians, Lamanchas and Oberhasli. Of course, combinations of 2 or more breeds happens also.
Julie H
Goat Genius
*****
Posts: 1994


Missouri


« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2020, 01:08:18 PM »

One more question.  Since I gave them the 3 dewormers this time, what do you recommend I do when they kid?  I always deworm them the day of ( or day after) kidding.  Should I go with Cydectin since I haven't used it in my 3 way?
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dragonlair
Herdmaster
Goat Genius
*****
Posts: 9851



« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2020, 09:09:26 PM »

That would probably work.

I only deworm after doing a fecal, even after kidding. The only time I deworm without is when they first come to my farm.

I wish we had the new deworming meds they have in Australia and New Zealand.
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DragonLair Farm and Kennel in Central Maine with Nubians, Lamanchas and Oberhasli. Of course, combinations of 2 or more breeds happens also.
Julie H
Goat Genius
*****
Posts: 1994


Missouri


« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2020, 12:53:04 PM »

That would probably work.

I only deworm after doing a fecal, even after kidding. The only time I deworm without is when they first come to my farm.

I wish we had the new deworming meds they have in Australia and New Zealand.

Why don't we?  Maybe they will make it over here eventually??
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dragonlair
Herdmaster
Goat Genius
*****
Posts: 9851



« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2020, 03:42:27 PM »

FDA/ Dept Agriculture won't even test it. Angry Angry Angry Angry Sad Sad Sad Sad
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DragonLair Farm and Kennel in Central Maine with Nubians, Lamanchas and Oberhasli. Of course, combinations of 2 or more breeds happens also.
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