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Topic: These 12 hour shifts are killing my breeding plans.  (Read 136 times)
dragonlair
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« on: November 18, 2020, 11:33:08 AM »

So, I am so far behind in breeding this year. They should all be bred by now, but so far only about 5 have been bred, and I am still waiting to see if they come back in heat. I have the bucks in the barn to try to get them showing, but it never fails, they come in heat when I am at work, and by the time i get home, they are out of standing heat. I have a show scheduled for Memorial Day weekend, but I'm not even sure I will have any kids to show.

This STINKS!
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DragonLair Farm and Kennel in Central Maine with Nubians, Lamanchas and Oberhasli. Of course, combinations of 2 or more breeds happens also.
imalilbirdie
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Posts: 19781


Texas


« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2020, 06:47:51 AM »

Good Lord...how many days a week are you working now?  Are you still the ACO as well?  There's always next year, but I agree, well made plans and the excitement of it, to have it go to the weigh side is disappointing.  I'm sorry this is happening.  I would imagine that you would have produced some awesome show quality animals.  Hopefully you'll be able to get them all bred quickly.
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~ Birdie ~
Julie H
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Posts: 1992


Missouri


« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2020, 11:50:56 AM »

If you know who you want to breed and about when they should come in heat ,  why not put them in with the buck for a few days when you have to work?

I have never been successful with hand breeding Grin
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imalilbirdie
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Posts: 19781


Texas


« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2020, 07:14:02 AM »

Julie I was never able to do hand breeding.  We had way too many to hand breed all of them.  I did allow 3 of my girls to run with Roady when I sold the girls and they paid more to have them bred to Roady before they left.  One of those had already gone out of heat, but Roady teased her back into heat.  They were Mother, and her 2 daughters from different kiddings.  That's the closest I've ever gotten to hand breeding.
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~ Birdie ~
dragonlair
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Posts: 9844



« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2020, 06:48:28 PM »

I can run the Nigerian does with the bucks, as I put 3 with the Jr buck in the buck pen and put the Sr buck in the doe pen, but my standard does i can't. Most are still milking, to begin with, and I don't have the set up to separate the 2 bucks in pens large enough to run 10+ does with them.

I have to hand breed. Plus, up here, you can't sell a goat unless they test negative for CAE, CL, Johnes, TB etc. I get around it by pulling all the breeding quality potential bucks and all the doelings, and raising on heat treated colostrum and pasteurized milk. You need to know within a day or so when they will kid. I have to hand breed them to get a date.

My Nigerians all came from tested herds, and have never run with the standards. But, I am going to have to get them tested this fall in order to get a decent price for the kids.
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DragonLair Farm and Kennel in Central Maine with Nubians, Lamanchas and Oberhasli. Of course, combinations of 2 or more breeds happens also.
imalilbirdie
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Posts: 19781


Texas


« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2020, 08:00:32 AM »

What if you reduced the size of your herd?  Fewer to have to breed as well as fewer to have ready at a specific time for birthing.  Seems like that would make it much easier on you.  Work, and farm are colliding with one another and without work, there are no animals, so there isn't a choice there.  Seems like a lot to go through to own and sell animals up your way.  I do hope they are fetching high quality prices.  We didn't have to go through all that in Arkansas.  Thank God.  Our animals were clean animals, and well cared for, which sold them to folks all over the U.S. just by reputation.  I don't think we could have stayed afloat very long if I had to test each and every goat.
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~ Birdie ~
dragonlair
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« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2020, 07:23:34 PM »

Testing is becoming huge all over the country now, especially in dairy herds, but also now in meat herds. Some show grounds are demanding it before you can come on their grounds with your animals. Dairy cattle have been doing this for decades, being tested for certain diseases, so now it's expanded to dairy goats. Show herds especially, need to be tested or other people will totally ignore them and sales will suffer. Remember a certain late/former member of GB? Her herd was infected with both CL and CAE, no one wanted her animals and they all went to slaughter after she passed.
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DragonLair Farm and Kennel in Central Maine with Nubians, Lamanchas and Oberhasli. Of course, combinations of 2 or more breeds happens also.
imalilbirdie
Herdmasters
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Posts: 19781


Texas


« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2020, 09:47:20 AM »

Yes I do remember that, and it was awful.  Brought me to my knees in tears when you told me.  Shameful for sure.  We were lucky I suppose and maybe very blessed to have an extremely healthy herd.  I tested for nothing, and I gave no shots unless it was absolutely necessary that I do so.  Our cattle got their black leg shots yearly.  Our horses got their shots yearly, and my dogs/cats of course got their shots, but our goats were the healthiest animals you ever saw.  I truly I tell you, I believe with all my heart it was the fastrack that did that.  Our cattle and horses never got sick.  Pete and Naylie were down because I gave them the goat mineral...which almost killed them both.  If I hadn't had the vet run the copper levels in their blood they would have been dead.  But once we saw how high their copper levels were, the vet treated for it and within a week or two they were back to normal.  I'll never EVER do that again.  Minerals are designed for specific animals and now I truly believe that.  Past that, that was our only issue with our animals, except Socks who I lost to Polio. 

I just don't believe in all this government control.  Testing required.  Hell, if as a child we were going to die from lack of testing in cattle, hogs, goats, sheep and all the other meat animals we would have died then.  We were fed raw cows milk, we were fed meats from our cattle, chickens, and hogs, we ate the eggs of free range chickens, and we never got sick.  I believe it's a "show" thing, more than any thing else.  Who's going to dictate to who and who is going to cost the farmers more and more every year to survive.  Sorry no offense.  Just don't believe in all this regulation and demand.
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~ Birdie ~
dragonlair
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Posts: 9844



« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2020, 11:18:21 PM »

The testing is not government mandated, it's buyer mandated. No one will buy goats that have not been tested for CAE, CL, Johnes and TB. Dairy cattle have mandatory TB testing because it is transmitted in milk. Scrapies is another deadly disease in goats and sheep (same thing as Mad Cow) and the government has a scrapies program that goat people have to abide by when selling any goats or shipping across state lines, only terminal sales are exempt. Is transmitted to humans.

Except for CAE, the other 3 can be transmitted to humans. Johnes and TB are death sentences to the animals. Johnes and CL have been linked in humans to illnesses like Crohns And Colitis. CL, once on your property, is there for years and is transmittable to humans, horses, cattle, sheep, deer etc.  CL was pretty much unheard of until the meat goat people started importing and just randomly breeding CL positive animals and not culling. At 1 point, something like 90 % of the meat goat herds had it, and it jumped over to dairy herds. Meat breeders didn't care because they just shipped to slaughter and any abscess scar tissue was cut out of the carcass. However, with dairy breeds, imagine getting a CL abscess in the udder so the disease comes out when you milk? Some CL abscesses are internal and not easily seen. None of those diseases are curable in animals. Most reputable breeders test and control for these diseases. Selling a positive animal , whether intentionally or unknowingly, is suicide for your reputation. Your herd will be blackballed at shows and you will be stuck in a pen far away from the other goats . No one will help you show your animals, and sales come to a screeching halt. A lot of the sales pages online will not allow you to advertise unless you test your herd and disclose any positive animals. That is what happened to that person we both know. She couldn't sell her animals because everyone knew she had CL and CAE positive goats. At shows, her animals were places in a corner of the show barns at least 4 pens away from all the others goats. Her cheese sales came to a halt. She lost kids each year to the encephalitis form of CAE and many of her adults were crippled from it and had the rock hard, painful udders that symptomatic CAE produces. Since CAE and CL animals can look healthy,  buyers want to see the lab results to prove that the animals they are buying are healthy instead of getting the animals home and having an abscess pop out that infects their herd, or a doe kids and passes CAE on to her kids and potentially the other animals in the herd.

Most European countries, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa all have mandatory testing for most of these diseases and have pretty much eradicated them from their herds.
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DragonLair Farm and Kennel in Central Maine with Nubians, Lamanchas and Oberhasli. Of course, combinations of 2 or more breeds happens also.
imalilbirdie
Herdmasters
Goat Genius
*****
Posts: 19781


Texas


« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2020, 06:32:38 AM »

I must seriously be old school.  Because if I had to do all that, I wouldn't do it.  I know of a cattle farm that was shut down due to Johne's disease.  I know the cattle were all put down, a huge gigantic hole was dug and all the cattle bodies put in that hole and burned and then buried.  The farm is quarantined with a huge yellow governmental sign.  I was told by the neighbor that the owner wouldn't be able to have cattle or livestock on the property for 50 yrs.  Now, I tell you this, as truth because it was me and my trailer that hauled his sick cow and calf into the Vet, and I was there when the vet diagnosed them.  Yes it scared the heck out of me, and my trailer was immediately taken and the flooring removed, and the metal was pressure washed and sprayed down with bleach afterwards.  The wood that was removed from the flooring was burned and new flooring put in.  Yes, I made the owner of the cow/calf pay for all that.  I know how devastating these diseases are.  But I will not give shots unless needed or required.  I know about the scrapies...I didn't like it when they started it back in 07 or 08 (some where there abouts), I thought it was ridiculous and another way the government controlled our herds.  You see I come from a large livestock back ground...400 head of cattle, 200 head of hogs, goats, sheep, chickens, and horses all my life...our livestock was doing great, until all these mandates came down.  Hogs bottomed out in 1985, we sold off over 600 head of feeder pigs, all our sows/boars, only kept enough to feed ourselves.  That was seriously hard for our income and our livelihood.  I've been through all these up's and down's.  You're still not going to get me to do it.  I've not heard a thing about all this testing and stuff in our local areas.  I'll check with the goat herder down the road one day, and see what they say...He's got maybe 30 or 40 mixed breed goats over there.  One guy down the road behind us, has 5 dairy goats.  I hear their babies baa'ing for their bottles every morning and night.  I don't think folks down here takes it as seriously as folks up your way.   
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~ Birdie ~
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