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Topic: Items to have on hand during kidding season.  (Read 16376 times)
Candace
Guest
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2009, 08:03:53 AM »

I have to admit I am watching this with interest, as I know when I first started in goats over 15 years ago, and I started with Nubians, Molasses water was stressed to me at kidding time from everyone I got my Nubian from....I've lived in LA, to NM to KS....

I know too, when treating any animal, things are animal specific....warm Molasses water is something I have always used at kidding time and when I want them to pick up milk production....Always works...a little on the tongue...to pick up a kid....

I know i have always been told, what is good for one, may not be good for another...and what is bad for one, might be great for another.....IE, aspirin works great on a dogs, goats, etc; but used only sparingly on cats, in light doses with at least 3 days in between; it can kill them fast if too much.. Tylenol will kill a dog...COrid depletes thiamin and can kill a goat fast....but works great on cows...Tea tree oil, great for an species, except will kill a cat...
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Candace
Guest
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2009, 08:22:54 AM »

Oh now this is interesting, I typed in the name you suggested on my search engine, and typed in "Molasses water"....or "molasses"; just to see what I could find and see....This was what I found; it is from the yahoo group "practical goats", a post by karin christensen recommending molasses water...please, I'm not trying to argue here, just was researching some and shairing what I found...
Quote
Re: [practical-goats] udders and kidding ? [I am worried]

She could be dehydrated. Is she drinking? You might try offering her a
gallon of lukewarm water that has about a quarter cup of molasses mixed
in with it. This might get her drinking.

Sometimes when a goat is getting very close to kidding she will hunch up
and her back legs will seem straighter than normal. Also if she is very
close she may not want to drink.

What concerns me is that due to possible anemia or just the stress from
the itching that her kids may have died. I've lost track, just how
overdue is she? Are you certain about the breeding date? Did you take
her to the buck so you know the date for sure?

What's her temperature?

Karin Christensen
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Susanne
Guest
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2009, 08:33:46 AM »

karin is talking to somebody where the doe is obviously very stressed and possibly anemic.
i thought we are talking about normal kidding?

like i said in my previous post, everybody has different management practice. i don't see why people have to pick on others when they are doing things differently? this is the second time in such a short time i'm here. don't know if that is really the place i want to be.
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Candace
Guest
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2009, 08:39:53 AM »

I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to pick, just discussing....and posting what I found.... I am not trying to say your way is wrong, the above post I said I was following it with interest, you typed in a name to ask, so I looked and posted what I found... I was just discussing...Not arguing or trying to tell you to do something one way or another....


One thing on here, we do discuss things, that does not mean we are saying you are wrong....or I am wrong...you are right or I am right.... I didn't just come in and say "you are not right" and jsut be stubborn and argue, I took a person you said to look into....She is affiliated with Linda Cambell I found, after the fact, and I highly regard Linda....so I am looking into it....posting what I find....Trying to chat with you about it...


So, can we not discuss without bringing in an argument? I was not upset nor thinking you were doing anything wrong....I was just talking....
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Sally P
Goat Genius
*****
Posts: 8923


New Sharon, Maine


« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2009, 08:48:32 AM »

When you are a young child, education is taught AT you.  When you get older, education becomes a discussion from which one learns not only pertinent facts about the issue, but also how to react to other opinions and knowledge.  Good discussion is not necessarily centered around one point of view, but rather several points of view.  Whether one learns from these discussions is totally a personal acceptance; however, not each discussion becomes a agrument or a put down of participant's opinions.  Education comes in many forms and discussion is certainly one of those forms.  A topic that suggests some research and then is reasearched and then discussed or commented on, is not picking on the originator--rather it is accomplishing what that person suggested----research and comments!!  That is discussion---not argument or contriversy.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2009, 08:51:44 AM by Sally P » Logged
imalilbirdie
Herdmasters
Goat Genius
*****
Posts: 19149


Texas


« Reply #35 on: January 28, 2009, 09:40:53 AM »

Susanne, I will state this once and for all, and very strongly in fact..I am not, ABSOLUTELY NOT..trying to start any arguements with you..I simply, and stated strongly again..SIMPLY asked you where you got your information on the molasses and giving B-Complex.  Now if you wish to read that I am picking on you..then that's your way of thinking, not mine nor this forums.  You came in here, stated something that NONE of us, well lets speak in the singular term, "I" have never heard of in the years I've been goat herding.  Which is in meat goats, grant you that, and longer than you've been in goats..but that's beside the point..I'm here to learn, and share and grow with these folks..not argue like you always seem to take things...I don't know what other forums you come from but I've seen those other forums turn discussions into arguements and if that's what you're use to, then that's why you deem our site the same way..WELL AGAIN, it's NOT! 

I simply posted those links to prove what I was saying to be the factual information found in several (which I didn't even list all the ones I have for fear of burn out..so to speak) reputable websites that even if you say "YUCK" it's the websites that THOUSANDS of goat herders across this Nation uses.  All those thousands of goat herders are not in this forum..so it can't just be for this forum's viewing. 

These websites, have been around for EONs, and are referred to more so than any Vet clinic is called upon.  So yes, I trust them.  Their information and advices and suggestions have been dead on the money for not just myself, but for THOUSANDS of people. 

Now, I read what you wrote, this gal you posted..NO, I do not know her, I will research her, you can depend on that.  I'm not a dairy goat person..if she's a dairy goat person this is why I probably and most likely do not know her..BUT, you're saying Molasses isn't good for "goats"  that's a general term and I'm using "molasses is good for "goats" as a loose term..for all goats, which it is..I'm sorry you can say it's not, but I haven't found sound good informational FACTS that it's not.  Where as I have several reputable vets one being a caprine specialist and several websites that prove it is. 

Now if you feel this is an arguement, then fine..that's up to you..I'm not going to tip toe around and worry if you feel my questions are arguementative when I feel I'm trying to get information to support what you've said..I'm ALWAYS up for bettering my herd, bettering my operation, bettering the welfare of my herd.  I will close NO DOORS to aquiring more and more good sound factual information.  This part of farming, if it's goats, cows, hogs, chickens or crops..makes absolutely no difference..if you can't grow and you stay idle, then you're going to be left behind..pure and simple.

No, I was not starting this questioning to start an arguement with you..a little miff that you feel I did though..but again this too shall pass and I'll rise above it, and I hope you're there with me to do the same.  I have no intentions in trying to get you to change what you do with your farm or your animals..but I do intend to CONTINUE to learn..so I hope you join me in that endeavor.
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~ Birdie ~
Susanne
Guest
« Reply #36 on: January 28, 2009, 10:08:26 AM »

the end, or not?  Smiley
birdie doesn't matter what, picking started on my welcome thread with the cae issue and goes on over simply disagreement about using molasses. Roll Eyes
it is stated "but we all do it and everybody we know do it"  you really think because of that it is right? 
do you have children? when my children were born long time ago, every body i knew, feed their infants sweetened tee. every time i went for a walk, i could see those little kids sucking on a tee bottle. oh yeah, nestle, one of the producer said it is great because it calms them down and moms have more time doing other things. guess what, after a couple of years it was discovered that the sugar destroys the teeth before they are even through the gum.  a lot of lawsuits followed from angry parents. but hey, ,the teeth were ruined.
i did not give the sugar tee to my children like everybody else (i should say a certain group of people) and they have very strong beautiful teeth.   
i have learned to do my own thinking and use common sense.
i don't believe one minute that a goat needs sugar (molasses) in her diet. the looks of my animals are prove enough for me.
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imalilbirdie
Herdmasters
Goat Genius
*****
Posts: 19149


Texas


« Reply #37 on: January 28, 2009, 10:22:07 AM »

Ok, then..I understand where you're coming from..but you posted that there was evidence of the b-complex being better than the warm molasses water, and I simply want to know where that is backed up at.  It's your "own" experience..ok that's fine..but you have to assume that we're going to question that..because we've been in a "set" pattern, given direction by the "best" most "experienced" goat knowledgeable folk around..so when you disclaim what we've know as fact to work for all of us..then of course you're going to go under "questioning".  How could you venture to think any other way? 

You see all I ask was a simple tell me where you got that information.  That wasn't hurting anything.  Certainly not intended to hurt you.  I did question it..as if you believe me or not..I do like to acquire new information, but I also what that information "factual" too.  I won't jeopardize my herd's welfare or health for any reason shape or form..and you can look at my herd in pictures and see what I'm talking about as well..I mean, they hurt for nothing..they want for nothing..they get everything I know of that is good for them.  And I'll bet mine come from as good a blood line as anyone Else's out there. 

That's not what this was about..this was about asking a question regarding b-complex over molasses.

If you can't over come what happened in your welcoming thread..I'm sorry for that..but that grudge you're carrying is going to fester and burst again and again and again..and you know what..you are the only one that can stop it..for the saying is true.."he who angers you, controls you."  So try to let it go and lets get on with sharing and growing and strengthening our knowledge and our herding together.  Unless you mean to say, You're not willing to grow with us, and are going to stay in the pattern you're doing..because there I'm afraid you're going to be setting yourself up for a huge let down my friend (and yes, I call you friend)..because, unless we conform (as you stated with the babies and tea) to the world around us..we won't be in business very long.  We're willing to grow by asking about your feeling toward the b-complex and molasses and what substantiated it. 
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~ Birdie ~
Sally P
Goat Genius
*****
Posts: 8923


New Sharon, Maine


« Reply #38 on: January 28, 2009, 10:27:13 AM »

Susanne---you seem to think that the world is picking on you.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  Absolutely no one has picked on you.  What people have done is discuss with you your point of view versus their point of view.  
While it is just fine to get knowledge from reading books and websites, you must realize that what you are reading in either medium is one person's point of view.  For example:  I have an extensive collection of books on goats--both lay books and technical medical books.  I use the books for reference occassionally however, seldom do I take the writing for granted.  I may compare what various authors have to say regarding the topic; but i also take in to account my own (as well as others) experiences.  The great majority of the time I find that "hands on" experience far outweighs what is written.  
From what you have posted, you have only had about four years experience with goats.  I will admit that you may have a bit more knowledge than many people who have only had goats for 4 years; however, with just three people that have posted to you, there is over 40 years** of hands-on experience replying and just trying to share their experiences and knowledge.
As a former teacher, I tried very hard to teach my students via "hands-on" versus total book knowledge.  I always found that if a person learned what a frog was by handling one versus looking at a picture in a book, that hands-on erperience taught more in a few minutes than an hour's worth of reading!!
The bottom line is---no one is "picking" on you.  What people are doing is sharing and discussing.  There is a huge difference.

**I am going to add a footnote here:  now that the other two mods have posted:  there is a total of 74 years of goat experience between 5 people:  That's an average of approximately 15 years for each person.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2009, 03:12:31 PM by Sally P » Logged
Candace
Guest
« Reply #39 on: January 28, 2009, 10:30:33 AM »

.I had this post ready before Pam or Sally, posted, and I am posting on my own...

..and I believe when they kid, they do, and then my goats show it too...

The discussion was going, and I nor Pam were offended, but I entered asking a few questions and sharing what I found, it appeared that you thought you were being picked on....So, did that bother me? yes.... Since all I was doing was talking....sharing and discussing with you...and when I, didn't agree, I was picking on you? No, I didn't agree, but I didn't condemn you, I only questioned and looked at information you gave, which I will research further as I want to KNOW the truth....


With discussion, as I stated before, just like tea tree oil....There was a point in here where someone was using it, had a problem with a cat and went to use it becuase of the success someone else had with a goat....I came in and stated it would kill the cat - NOT to use it! when questioned, I didn't take offense, think I was being picked on, I stated my sources....and if my only source happened to be my experience as opposed to many others, that would have been the end of it....they could take it or leave it.....

My point is, you made a statement that it didn't need to be used for new moms,  bcomplex was better...As responsible goat owners we questioned it and discussed it with you...asking for back up information....

The sweet tea, that was yes, something, but within the time frame they saw they were wrong...Molasses has been used for decades and is recommended for decades, and if the use of it is incorrect...Then it needs to be seen....


However, but if it's just personal preference of a few as opposed to the many, and it really doesn't have detrimental effects with goats, then it needs to be noted that way too...

So the stand you took was questioned, and discussed as as I stated above, I was interested to see where it ended up....But that was all I was, I was not picking, I was discussing, as any responsible goat owner would do....and that will happen in the future, not just by me, but by others also, when a statement is made to what the proven effective way they have managed their herds is brought up....as with anything, learning is an every day process...

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koakritters
Guest
« Reply #40 on: February 07, 2011, 04:07:17 PM »

has anyone ever used the powered colostrum you find at the feed stores? That's all I've ever seen around here, but until last year i really had no need for it, so of course we didn't have it at 10pm when they kids came... Planning on getting some this year in case she decides to have 6 kids at once again... any thoughts compared to the frozen colostrum people have mentioned?
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Sandie
Guest
« Reply #41 on: February 07, 2011, 04:13:56 PM »

i keep some of the powdered on hand but only use it if i run out of frozen colostrum.  the frozen colostrum is better it is real colostrum with nothing added, and if it came from your herd then it will have the antibodies that your goats have, giving immunity to whatever types of diseases are in your area.   most of the powdered ones have other things in them and they may not be colostrum from a goat, and even if it is from a goat the drying process is likely to kill off the antibodies that pass on the immunity to the kids. the powdered is still going to have digestive bacteria and enzymes so it is good for that just not passing on immunity. since the frozen keeps good for a year then anytime you have kids ( unless it is a bunch  of kids ) you should milk out a little of the colostrum and freeze it.  doesn't take much you can freeze it in ice cube trays then once it is frozen pop the cubes into a freezer bag and you are good to go.
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imalilbirdie
Herdmasters
Goat Genius
*****
Posts: 19149


Texas


« Reply #42 on: February 07, 2011, 04:17:38 PM »

yes, I have used it..it's the freeze dried colostrums from Jeffers..I've also used the colostrums paste in a tube..and of course I've used the real colostrums frozen fresh from the Doe herself.

I've had real good luck with all three. Smiley
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~ Birdie ~
Young LaMancha Breeder
Guest
« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2011, 08:46:51 AM »

I have used the powder colostrum from TSC and Co-Op before. The trick is to make it an itty bitty bit stronger than the package advises.  Smiley
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Pat
Caprine Guru
****
Posts: 358



« Reply #44 on: July 13, 2014, 09:52:20 PM »

OK - I'm printing out this list and starting to collect stuff, and adding sterile scissors...can anyone think of anything Birdie has left out? Valium?

My trip to TSC tomorrow is probably going to get expensive.  Thank goodness for coupons!

By the way, Birdie, would that be mint-flavored or regular dental floss? Smiley
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