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Topic: ivomec safe for dogs  (Read 10833 times)
RUSS
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« on: March 01, 2010, 05:38:00 PM »

I am getting ready to worm all my goat's with ivomec pour on. I was curious if it was safe for my dogs also and if so what would be the dosage?
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harmon_farms
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« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2010, 05:50:30 PM »

What breeds are your dogs? I can give you the dosage for the injectable, but not the pour on. =(
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RUSS
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« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2010, 06:02:27 PM »

I have beagles, cur's and border collies it's not a big issue, i just thought if possible i could worm every thing at one time goats, dog's, chickens etc. and not have to purchase several wormers.   
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giftfarms
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« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2010, 06:12:16 PM »

My vet use to tell me 1cc per 25lbs of Injectible Ivamec is safe for dogs, but its given orally.  Once a month.  I have been using it for years on my dogs, all breeds.

If you use Heartguard or any of them others you will see the meds in it are Iveromectin, Ivomec.

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dragonlair
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« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2010, 06:15:35 PM »

Any type of Collie could have issues with ivermectin, though not all of them do. Ivermectin is not as broad a wormer as some of the others for dogs, it actually gets very few canine worms. Its more for heart worm preventative than anything. Either the paste or the injectable can be given orally, I wouldn't use the pour on.
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DragonLair Farm and Kennel in Central Maine with Nubians, Lamanchas and Oberhasli. Of course, combinations of 2 or more breeds happens also.
Sandie
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« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2010, 06:25:53 PM »

and if your dogs do have heartworm then you have to get rid of them first with a less potent wormer as the ivomec kills them very rapidly and they will clog up the heart and kill the dog. so if they have not been tested for heartworm or on heartworm prevention doses then don't use it.
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RUSS
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« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2010, 07:49:00 PM »

THANKS EVERYONE; that's good enough for me!
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imalilbirdie
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« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2010, 08:25:23 PM »

if it's heartworm, you need your vet..killing those off can kill your dog.

Ivomec was always told to me to never use on border collies..we've raised border collies most my life and I wouldn't risk for nothing.

Ivomec or even the ivermectrin horse paste wormer works good.  I use the horse paste wormer on all my dogs since 1990.  Works good for all worms.
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pearplum
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« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2010, 02:19:18 AM »


 I never knew that about Ivomec! We always use it on our goats but then I go and spend BIG money on Drontal wormer for them. And I could have used the same stuff all along?
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Milk n Cookies
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« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2010, 06:08:40 AM »

Do you follow the regular dosage per pound on the horse wormer tubes?  Or is it like goats where you double their actual weight for the dosage?  Does it really need to be given monthly?  I usually worm dogs spring and fall with the 3-day Safeguard regimen.  But it is quite expensive, nearly 10 dollars per dog.  And now I have these pyrenees pups, I'd have to buy double the amount because of their big size.
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imalilbirdie
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« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2010, 06:28:47 AM »

You know I wrote in my last post I used it on all our dogs..well I meant my Shepards and LGD's.  Not my collies.  Sorry that was a little double talk there.

Ok, now..the safeguard for dogs, kills out the hookworm, nemax (sp) is another that's good for puppies that Sasha got from her breeder, but didn't work on hookworms, which almost killed her..so we had to do a regimen wormer on her of the safeguard.  I've heard of folks using the goat safeguard on dogs, but the amount of which they used I'm not sure.

Now with the weaned puppies (such as Sasha at 14 weeks old when we got her), we started using ivermectrin horse paste wormer on her, just like we did Ringo (adult dog 127lbs).  I started using the horse paste on our LGD's when we got them at 13 and 1/2 weeks old. 

With the pups I blob out a 250lb dial on the tube onto a butter dish lid and divide it in half, and give half to each pup.  With my Sons Min Pin,( weighed about 3-4lbs at 8 weeks old) I gave her a 1/4th of the blob dialed out on the 250 lb mark on the tube.  With Ringo my 127lb dog (shepard) I give him the full 250 pound mark on the tube. 

If your worms are under control and you don't have issue with worms on your farm, (remember tape worms comes from fleas, so have those under control too..MnC, you can use the backside plus on your dogs to control fleas and ticks as well and save some money there, but I've never used it on a puppy before, just adult dogs) like we didn't have issue back home, so we wormed every 3 months, along with every animal on the farm.  Here in LA, I'm having to worm once monthly due to the wet environment and the stray animals that cross our yard and shed those nasty worms every where.  Does no good to complain about park rules, they do nothing about it at all.  So, Ringo and Sasha are getting once a month wormer of the horse paste wormer, and they are flea/tick treated now once a month instead of once every 6 to 8 weeks..and I'm using frontline to make sure it's under control. 

Another wormer you might try is Piperzine, it won't get tape worms though, or so I'm told.  But it's good for puppies 1cc per 6lbs of body weight. 
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dragonlair
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« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2010, 08:57:39 AM »

This was the info given to me a few years ago by a vet at a dog expo. I gave it to my vet to read and he agreed with it. It's a pain to make the original heartworm dosage, but it's also the correct dosage. Some vets are mixing it up and selling it to people who can't afford the heart guard and other such types for their dogs.

They are also finding the ivermectin sensitivity in all herding breeds, including German Shepards and their like, especially white ones. Ivermectin is not for use in pups under 8 weeks old because they have the same issue as the herding dogs.....the brain/blood barrier isn't developed. With certain lines and individuals within the herding breeds, that barrier never develops, which causes the problems. The heart guard and the like are dosed so that even those that are sensitive to invermectin are supposedly able to tolerate it without the side effects.

USING IVERMECTIN TO PROTECT AGAINST HEARTWORM IN DOGS

The correct dosage for dogs is 0.0015 mg to 0.003 mg per pound of body weight. That's 1.5

mcg to 3 mcg per pound of body weight.

If you are using the 1% ivermectin straight out of the bottle and giving your dog 1/10th of

a cc (0.1 cc = 0.1 ml) per pound of body weight, you are dosing your dog at the rate of 1 mg

per pound of body weight. That is FAR FAR over the recommended dose of no more than 0.003 mg

per pound of body weight. Even if you're doing it at 1/10 cc per TEN lbs it's still way too

much. I don’t THINK anyone is doing this with the 1% ivermectin, but some of the posts were

a little unclear on this. Doing it THIS way – straight, uncut – with the 1% ivermectin would

be far riskier than anything I personally would want to be involved with.

If you are cutting it at the rate of 1:9 with propylene glycol, you end up with 1 mg of

ivermectin per ml (it is now a 0.1 % solution).

If you then give 1/10th of a cc per 10 lbs, which I think is what people were recommending,

you are still dosing at 0.01 mg per pound of body weight, or 10 mcg per pound. 1/10 cc has

1/10 mg of ivermectin in it. So a 20 lb dog would get 2/10 cc, with 2/10 mg of ivermectin in

it, which is 200 mcg of ivermectin when the suggested dose for this size dog is between 23

mcg and 60 mcg. This is essentially the same as the ferret dosage, roughly between 3.5 to 10

times higher than it needs to be. Probably not dangerous, but why waste the stuff? If you’re

cutting it anyway, why not just cut it down to something more precisely manageable?

Here’s what I do:

½ ml of 1% Ivomec injectable cattle wormer added to 49.5 ml of propylene glycol. There was 5

mg of ivermectin in the ½ ml of 1% ivomec, now suspended in 50 ml of propylene glycol, for a

concentration of 5 mg/ 50ml. This is 0.1 mg per ml, or 100 mcg per ml.

For those slightly less obsessed with precision than I, you could make this ½ ml of the 1%

Ivomec added to 10 tsp of propylene glycol (3 T plus 1 tsp). Measure this using an accurate

1/4 c measure and take out 2 tsp. It works out roughly the same. If you try to do it with a

tsp or T at a time, you keep adding errors with every spoonful - use the 1/4c measure and

take out 2 tsp, it'll be closer. Plus it's easier.

Multiply the weight of your dog by 2. This gives you, in MICROGRAMS, how much medication to

give your dog. If it’s a little less or a little more you are still within the safe zone of

1.15 to 3 mcg per pound of body weight. You can actually use any number between 1.15 and 3,

I just picked 2 because it’s easy to do in your head. Heartguard uses 2.72 as their upper

limit; notice that smaller dogs are getting more, sometimes significantly more, than 2.72

mcg per pound in the weight ranges that Heartguard uses. So yes there is room for slop.

Then divide that by 100 to determine how many cc’s of the above mixture to squirt into the

lil’ pup’s mouth.

SO if your dog weighs 24 lbs:

24 x 2 = 48; divide by 100 = 0.48 cc

We can’t measure in hundredths of a cc, so just round to the nearest whole 1/10th of a cc.

In this case, a 24 lb dog should get ½ cc of the above mixture. (rounding 0.48 up to 0.5, or

½ cc).

SO, weight of the dog in pounds x 2 / 100 = # of cc’s of this mixture to give the puppy to

protect it from heartworm.

A 100 lb dog using this solution would get 2 cc of solution. (100 x 2 / 100 = 2). Anything

between 1.2 cc to 3 cc would be safe for a dog this size (it’s weight x the amount in mcg

per pound, so where there is a 2, any number from 1.15 to 3 – the dosage range for heartworm

control – could have been used).

Make sense?

Using the 1:9 ration, the amount of ivermectin per cc is (from above) 1 mg, or 1000 mcg. So

the calculation for the 1:9 ration (1 cc of 1% ivermectin added to 9 cc of propylene glycol)

would be:

For 1:9 solution ONLY: weight in lbs x 3 / 1000 = cc’s to give, or, for example:

100 lb dog => RANGE of appropriate dosage would be
100 x 1.15 / 1000 = 0.115 cc MINIMUM to 100 x 3 / 1000 = 0.3 cc MAX
50 lb dog => RANGE of appropriate dosage would be
50 x 1.15 / 1000 = 0.057 cc MINIMUM to 50 x 3 / 1000 = 0.15 cc MAX
20 lb dog => RANGE of appropriate dosage would be
20 x 1.15 / 1000 = 0.023 cc MINIMUM to 20 x 3 / 1000 = 0.06 cc MAX

We can’t give less than 1/10 of a cc, so you can see how much harder it gets to dose your

dog properly the smaller they get. If you have BIG dogs, it doesn’t matter much, you can get

something that falls within the recommended treatment range; but if you have SMALL dogs, you

end up routinely overdosing them. That’s why I favor the lower concentration solution. I’ve

never had a dog over 40 lbs, and most of them were 25 lbs or less.

Again, as long as you cut it at least 1:9 and use the formula above (more accurate than 1/10

cc per 10 lbs), you’re probably (PROBABLY) not going to do any lasting damage to your

(non-collie) dog, but if you’re cutting it anyway, and you have smaller dogs, why not cut it

to something a bit more manageable?

Of course, you can skip all this mixing and stuff and go right to the .27% ivomec for swine.

Then the calculations would be as follows:

Weight of your dog x 3 / 2700 = # of cc’s of 0.27% Ivomec.

In this case a 24 lb dog would get : 24x3=72, 72/2700 = 0.0267 cc. Since it’s awfully hard

to get less than 1/10 cc, you’d probably go ahead and give the dog 1/10 cc. This is still

"overdosing", but it’s about the same as what folks are doing with the 1:9 solution or the

Ferret Mix. It’s no worse, not dangerously high for non-susceptible dogs, and skips all the

mucking about with having to cut the solution (and find a source for propylene glycol).

So if you wanted to skip any mixing at all, you could give 0.27% (NOT 1%) ivomec as follows:

20 lbs – 100 lbs 1/10 cc (delivers 270 mcg of ivermectin)
100 lbs – 200 lbs 2/10 cc (delivers 540 mcg of ivermectin)

I can’t imagine a dog bigger than 200 lbs, but if there are any out there, you could give

them 3/10 of a cc of the straight 0.27% Ivomec. That’d be a scary big dog indeed.

I wouldn’t do this with puppies – they’re more sensitive to overdose. In fact you should not

be giving ivermectin in any form whatsoever to puppies under 6 weeks of age – it can cross

the blood-brain barrier just like it does in collies until they’re older. 8 weeks would

probably be safer. If you’re going to dose really small dogs (under 20 lbs) and puppies, cut

the stuff and stick to the recommended dosages.

Here’s a reference for dosing information that includes gastrointestinal worming and skin

parasites:

http://www.petplace.com/drug-library/ivermectin-ivomec-heartgard/page1.aspx#

Here’s a treatment schedule for demodectic mange that includes the use of ivermectin:

http://www.petplace.com/dogs/demodicosis-red-mange-in-dogs/page4.aspx

WHERE TO GET PROPYLENE GLYCOL: Beg a cup or so off of a large animal vet, or if you know

someone who raises cattle, they probably have some. I've never been able to find it to buy

in anything less than a gallon size. We're talking TEASPOONS here, for most of us who aren't

breeders anyway. DO NOT SUBSTITUTE ETHYLENE GLYCOL, IT IS POISONOUS AND WILL KILL KILL KILL

YOUR DOG!

Do not attempt to mix with water as Ivermectin is NOT water soluble. It won't distribute

evenly in water, stick with the propylene glycol.

.............................

The higher dosage of ivermectin that is used (even by veterinarians) for treating mange and intestinal worms is 50-100 times the dosage needed to prevent heartworms. The higher dosage is often used to treat mange mites and intestinal worms and the typical product used is 'Ivomec', a 1% solution of ivermectin labeled for injectable use to control parasites in cattle. This product is typically administered orally at 1 ml per 100 lbs of dog. That would be 1/10th ml per 10 lbs. There is also a generic ivermectin 1% solution available. 'Ivomec' ivermectin also comes in a less concentrated 0.27% solution labeled for injectable use in grower/feeder pigs.

Ivermectin also comes in a more concentrated paste wormer for horses. The horse paste wormer has been marketed under several brand names including "Zimectrin" and "Eqvalan". The paste is much too difficult to measure accurately in small doses and should never be used for dogs.
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DragonLair Farm and Kennel in Central Maine with Nubians, Lamanchas and Oberhasli. Of course, combinations of 2 or more breeds happens also.
imalilbirdie
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Southern Louisiana


« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2010, 09:02:44 AM »

takes a scientist to go through all those directions..hahaha.  Grin

I like my way, easy, simple, fast and works.  Grin Wink
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Sunshine
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« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2010, 09:24:47 AM »

I dose at 1cc per 100lbs.. So its 1/10cc per 10lbs... Never had a problem yet...
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dragonlair
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« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2010, 09:31:34 AM »

Actually, its pretty simple if you really read it, it just looks scary at first. Using the heartworm dosage will pretty much make sure that the intestinal type worms don't develop a resistance to it. Or, if by some chance a dog does have heart worm and it wasn't seen at its yearly test, a low dosage like that is not likely to kill it.

The problem with ivermectin in larger doses is that some people don't get their dogs checked for heartworm, then go blissfully out to buy it for an intestinal wormer and end up killing their dogs. I wish the companies who make ivermectin would go into a bit more detail in their warnings. At least state not to use ivermectin if your dog has not had a recent heartworm test.
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DragonLair Farm and Kennel in Central Maine with Nubians, Lamanchas and Oberhasli. Of course, combinations of 2 or more breeds happens also.
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